Politics are moderating in the U.K.

Casdon

Public sector workers don’t need Starmer standing on a picket line to convince them that they would be better off under a Labour Government Glorianny, they already know that. The world has moved on, although it appears that not everybody has noticed.

It wouldn’t be a good political move for Keir Starmer to stand around on picket lines. The public then think that he supports them being out of the hospitals, which he may do privately but if it’s you losing an appointment or a procedure it will become a vote loser.That’s why he doesn’t want his MP’s on picket lines, again it looks as if Labour doesn’t care about the economy and everyone working. In any case it wouldn’t make any difference to the pay of public workers.
Personally I think the government is mad to not intervene and
Sort out the nurses pay rise, and ambulance workers as well.
10% should be offered IMHO.

Ilovecheese

They might not need him to show solidarity with them, but it would have been a really nice gesture that would not have damaged him in any way.

He can't afford to use his political capital in that way. He may want to, but he is constrained by the circumstances he is in.

Personally, I'm not sure I would find it statesmanlike and we are in sore need of proper statesmen and women.

Ilovecheese

No, but Rachel Reeves follows the so called "handbag economic s" of George Osborne and is quite likely to say that the country " can't afford" pay rises that are in line with inflation.

Is she?

Glorianny

Well Starmer can't "challenge parliament" because the Tories have a large majority.
Standing on a picket line isn't personality politics. It has been a Labour party tradition and many Labour MPs have done it.
It wouldn't stop Starmer doing any of the things your suggest he should be doing

That is your opinion Glorianny, nothing more, nothing less.

I understand that you don't think anyone can have a different one, but they do. I do, and others do. There is nothing you can do to stop them from holding those opinions.

It would help if you changed your language to reflect this as your views, not words written on tablets of stone and handed down to you.

But I won't hold my breath.

"They're all the same" is the last resort of right wing commentators when their previous claims have been shot down in flames by the evidence that the Tories are corrupt, incompetent and responsible for thirteen years of chaos.

I think generally people who think there would be no difference are those who dont need a labour government.

No, but Rachel Reeves follows the so called "handbag economic s" of George Osborne and is quite likely to say that the country " can't afford" pay rises that are in line with inflation.

Ilovecheese

Will they be better off with Keir Starmer as prime minister though?

Compared with who? Are you actually saying that you think Rishi Sunak or Boris Johnson is a better bet to lead the country?

Will they be better off with Keir Starmer as prime minister though?

They might not need him to show solidarity with them, but it would have been a really nice gesture that would not have damaged him in any way.

Public sector workers don’t need Starmer standing on a picket line to convince them that they would be better off under a Labour Government Glorianny, they already know that. The world has moved on, although it appears that not everybody has noticed.

Well Starmer can't "challenge parliament" because the Tories have a large majority.
Standing on a picket line isn't personality politics. It has been a Labour party tradition and many Labour MPs have done it.
It wouldn't stop Starmer doing any of the things your suggest he should be doing

Glorianny

Since when was standing on a picket line extremism? Honestly the drift to the right and the condemnation of what are simply political, non-confrontational acts makes me very worried about the sort of state we are becoming.

I didn't say it was Glorianny. If you cannot discuss without twisting others words it is probably time to stop trying.

Since when was standing on a picket line extremism? Honestly the drift to the right and the condemnation of what are simply political, non-confrontational acts makes me very worried about the sort of state we are becoming.

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Ilovecheese

The way he won't even support the nurses, after all they did for us, makes me want to weep.

I've a feeling you need either your eyes or your ears or possibly both, testing. Or you simply like making up what has been said - when it hasn't.

Starmer has supported the nurses. He isn't in power so he can't change their incomes.

Three times he refused to say he would stand on picket lines with them www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-nhs-nurses-strike-picket-b2197178.html
How is that "supporting them"?

How would it be "supporting" them.

Would it get the NHS more money and a better system? Would it stop people leaving the NHS? Would it do anything but gather a few extremist votes to get him and his government into power where he could actually do something?

No. It would be as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

I'm sure the nurses standing on picket lines would regard Starmer's presence as better than "a chocolate fireguard" it might give them confidence that under Labour things would change. But maybe that's why he won't do it, because they won't.
There's a saying about justice needing to be seen to be done. In this case Starmer's commitment needs to be seen to be done.

Maybe some would, but you are diving back into personality politics - in which fewer and fewer appear to believe. If I were a nurse, I would rather he did all he could to challenge the government in Parliament, where the laws are made. I would also expect him to be working on having a future government that would be able to support the NHS. But perhaps Labour is not up to that? Acting as a TV personality is not a long-term answer. I am sure at least some of the nurses are intelligent enough to know that.

I think you are back into the extremes of how to do politics where you think you can dictate to the politicians because you know better than they do. How's that worked recently? Oh, and why not throw in a revolution for good measure? They work, don't they

Yes please Lovetopaint037! BTW what's your hobby?

A personality driven demand for success has been political madness for some years. Let’s bring back good old quiet intelligence. We need to listen to common sense driven by the needs of the country and not the self interest of members of a political party. We need an Attlee who was around when we needed him most so let us hope that Keir Starmer will be elected and we can have a steady, non corrupt government set on doing their best for this damaged economy and the welfare of its people.

I think you are right about that Gloryannie It would show his commitment to helping them achieve a proper pay rise.

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Ilovecheese

The way he won't even support the nurses, after all they did for us, makes me want to weep.

I've a feeling you need either your eyes or your ears or possibly both, testing. Or you simply like making up what has been said - when it hasn't.

Starmer has supported the nurses. He isn't in power so he can't change their incomes.

Three times he refused to say he would stand on picket lines with them www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-nhs-nurses-strike-picket-b2197178.html
How is that "supporting them"?

How would it be "supporting" them.

Would it get the NHS more money and a better system? Would it stop people leaving the NHS? Would it do anything but gather a few extremist votes to get him and his government into power where he could actually do something?

No. It would be as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

I'm sure the nurses standing on picket lines would regard Starmer's presence as better than "a chocolate fireguard" it might give them confidence that under Labour things would change. But maybe that's why he won't do it, because they won't.
There's a saying about justice needing to be seen to be done. In this case Starmer's commitment needs to be seen to be done.

Glorianny

DaisyAnne

Ilovecheese

The way he won't even support the nurses, after all they did for us, makes me want to weep.

I've a feeling you need either your eyes or your ears or possibly both, testing. Or you simply like making up what has been said - when it hasn't.

Starmer has supported the nurses. He isn't in power so he can't change their incomes.

Three times he refused to say he would stand on picket lines with them www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-nhs-nurses-strike-picket-b2197178.html
How is that "supporting them"?

How would it be "supporting" them.

Would it get the NHS more money and a better system? Would it stop people leaving the NHS? Would it do anything but gather a few extremist votes to get him and his government into power where he could actually do something?

No. It would be as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

Casdon

No Glorianny I said ilovecheese had let her emotions get the better of her because her antipathy meant she hadn’t read what Starmer actually said, which was not as she portrayed it. I’ve had enough of histrionic politics. I want somebody who is a grown up, quiet, efficient, caring , has credibility outside the UK, and will deliver what they say they will. You don’t have to be a table thumper or an orator to deliver, and delivery is what wins respect. That might not be what the public thinks it wants, being used to charlatans recently, but it’s definitely what is needed.

That sounds like a plan Casdon. I wish/hope for that too.

Well I feel better for having let off a bit of steam. Thank you for your responses.

PersonallyI've had enough of leaders who will promise anything to gain power and deliver nothing when they get it. Sadly Starmer seems to be proving that's the sort of bloke he is.

Keir Starmer made pledges to those he wanted to support him
Those pledges did not sound like "revolution".
People like me gave him his position based on those pledges, believing him to be honest.
No wonder I feel emotional, not hate, anger yes, but mainly just let down and made a fool of.

MaizieD

^ Is there anyone else here who does not always vote Labour?^

Me, Anniel.

Not until I grew older and the Lib Dems did dreadful things when in coalition with the tories.

Me Aniel.. I vote Green because I am lucky enough to have Caroline Lucas as my MP... though she is a lone voice she has really strong ethics and is always a voice of reason. If I didn't live in her constituency I would vote Labour.