Politics are moderating in the U.K.

Glorianny

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

Hmm.
This Corbyn debacle isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

“JEREMY CORBYN has vowed to fight the next election as a Labour MP after Sir Keir Starmer announced he would be barred from standing for the party.

The former leader said his successor’s decision to bar his candidacy was a “flagrant attack on the democratic rights of members”.

Feeling are running high in his Islington constituency!

Don’t be taken in by bluss and blunder (is that even a word?) but Corbyn does not have the whip, nor will he be funded by the LP. Any political party is entirely within its rights to refuse membership. The Tory party have got rid of dozens of people these past couple of years or so.

He is of course entirely free to stand as an independent, or even start a left wing political party.

Now that would be democracy 🙂

So the local members of the political party who have over many years shown their support for the MP should have no say in who represents that party, but one man, who seems to merely adjust and alter his beliefs according to what he imagines will make him popular, can decide for them. The NEC agreed to end Corbyn's suspension, but Starmer refused to readmit him. What is democratic about that?

Then if Corbyn thinks he has the backing he should stand as an independent.

The LP has decided that Corbyn rightly or wrongly no longer reflects its values.

Corbyn could prove to the LP that his values are respected and win as an independent.

Glorianny

I notice that this thread seems to have an over emphasis on the position of the LP on Brexit. Perhaps because nothing is on offer in UK politics now that isn't right wing or far right wing and moderate isn't really moderate at all just watered down Toryism

You might feel that it's 'overemphasis', Glorianny, but I think it was Corbyn's hubris that delivered us into the hands of the current appalling government. He threw away a good political position because, a) he wanted Brexit and b) he was misled by the chanting and adoration into thinking that he had his finger on the political pulse of the country.

He betrayed the Remain voting majority of Labour voters and scared the more centrist, conservative (small 'c'), Labour voters with his messianic followers.

Of course the RW media didn't help, but neither did his lack of political acumen.

I don't enjoy the current Labour caution and I think their grasp of economics is poor (but that goes for all the parties), but I don't see them as watered down tories; I see concern for a wider cross section of society than ever the tories have displayed and I see potential for promoting the sort of mixed economy the country was comfortable with until Thatcher set about destroying it.

Time will tell. But you won't get any improvement unless the LP is actually in power.

I notice that this thread seems to have an over emphasis on the position of the LP on Brexit. Perhaps because nothing is on offer in UK politics now that isn't right wing or far right wing and moderate isn't really moderate at all just watered down Toryism

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

Hmm.
This Corbyn debacle isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

“JEREMY CORBYN has vowed to fight the next election as a Labour MP after Sir Keir Starmer announced he would be barred from standing for the party.

The former leader said his successor’s decision to bar his candidacy was a “flagrant attack on the democratic rights of members”.

Feeling are running high in his Islington constituency!

Don’t be taken in by bluss and blunder (is that even a word?) but Corbyn does not have the whip, nor will he be funded by the LP. Any political party is entirely within its rights to refuse membership. The Tory party have got rid of dozens of people these past couple of years or so.

He is of course entirely free to stand as an independent, or even start a left wing political party.

Now that would be democracy 🙂

So the local members of the political party who have over many years shown their support for the MP should have no say in who represents that party, but one man, who seems to merely adjust and alter his beliefs according to what he imagines will make him popular, can decide for them. The NEC agreed to end Corbyn's suspension, but Starmer refused to readmit him. What is democratic about that?

I wonder if the huge bureaucracy we have built up in the UK will tend to rumble on which ever party is in power?
Is it even possible to introduce fewer structures in our main institutions?
Is moderation a nostalgic wish?

MaizieD

Katie59

Politics are more moderate recently, Starmer has quietened his left wingers and Sunak has sidelined most of the old guard that became unpopular. That is not to say that all his ministers or policies are moderate, but there is more party discipline, sacking Zahawi made it plain behavior has to be beyond reproach.

Really? 🙄

Just wait 'til he makes a move to the EU that the Brexit loons don't like...

Sunak is not likely to even dream about any EU concessions he is going in the opposite direction

Katie59

Politics are more moderate recently, Starmer has quietened his left wingers and Sunak has sidelined most of the old guard that became unpopular. That is not to say that all his ministers or policies are moderate, but there is more party discipline, sacking Zahawi made it plain behavior has to be beyond reproach.

Really? 🙄

Just wait 'til he makes a move to the EU that the Brexit loons don't like...

Politics are more moderate recently, Starmer has quietened his left wingers and Sunak has sidelined most of the old guard that became unpopular. That is not to say that all his ministers or policies are moderate, but there is more party discipline, sacking Zahawi made it plain behavior has to be beyond reproach.

Ilovecheese

I think if either party supported the nurses they would win the next election.

I'm not sure how Labour could Ilovecheese. What could they offer?

I think if either party supported the nurses they would win the next election.

argymargy

That may be so, but they’ll have to convince the electorate, who seem anything but moderate now.

I think, if you read the article, it suggests that it it the electorate who are losing patience with personality and single issue politics. I don't think I have ever read an article in the Economist that tells people how to think. It is much more about reporting on what trends are happening and what outcomes that may mean. It is far above the comic structure of the Daily Mail.

Rishi Sunak is a reaction to Mr Johnson and Liz Truss. His pitch is based on managerial competence rather than cartoonish radicalism. As public support for Brexit wanes, he is building bridges with the EU. Ms Truss wanted to dynamite orthodoxy; Mr Sunak is keen to work with institutions. The choice facing the British electorate next time will almost certainly be between two uncharismatic pragmatists with great hair—the opposite of Mr Johnson.

The article does warn, that although populism may have peaked, it is far from dead, citing Brexiteers as an ongoing problem as they try to take over spaces left by some of the populists.

It also points out that moderation and the gradualist approach may not be enough to meet the challenge of Britain’s woeful productivity or to overhaul its creaking public services. Even so the author sees competence as becoming more important to people than ideology.

Whitewavemark2

I see the ECHR has taken labour off the “ watch list” because they are satisfied that Starmer has done enough to rid the party of the anti-semitism that was so rife.

More moves to moderation

Why is the EHRC letting Labour get away with overtly anti-Semitic expulsions of Jews?

Kier Starmer
Anti semitism is a genuine threat to real people across the world.
Never seen anyone more talentless, uninspiring, uncharismatic, insipid, insignificant, mediocre and untrustworthy than you in politics but hey don’t worry those qualities make you just good enough as a Tory.

It isn’t an excuse to purge Labour of left-wing Jews.

The Report found that there was no more anti semitism in labour than the other parties. The right worked against their leader to stop him wining elections and weaponised anti semitism

Urmstongran

Hmm.
This Corbyn debacle isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

“JEREMY CORBYN has vowed to fight the next election as a Labour MP after Sir Keir Starmer announced he would be barred from standing for the party.

The former leader said his successor’s decision to bar his candidacy was a “flagrant attack on the democratic rights of members”.

Feeling are running high in his Islington constituency!

Don’t be taken in by bluss and blunder (is that even a word?) but Corbyn does not have the whip, nor will he be funded by the LP. Any political party is entirely within its rights to refuse membership. The Tory party have got rid of dozens of people these past couple of years or so.

He is of course entirely free to stand as an independent, or even start a left wing political party.

Now that would be democracy 🙂

Not Tory sceptic but EU sceptic😄. Well he was both really.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

The left are traditionally anti- EU.

But 66% of Labour voters voted Remain.

Yes I know that, but if you look at Labour over the years, the left wing was always Euro-sceptic.

Look at Tony Benn - he was typical of that wing. Corbyn was a Bennite through and through, so was always going to be Tory sceptic.

argymargy

That may be so, but they’ll have to convince the electorate, who seem anything but moderate now.

I'm not sure how you can claim that when, despite the populist red meat that the tories are throwing at the electorate; 'illegal migrants in small boats, clamping down on some protests', unions bringing the country to its knees;, the 'anti-woke' agenda, the opinion polls are consistently showing the tories 20%age points or more behind Labour.

Hmm.
This Corbyn debacle isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

“JEREMY CORBYN has vowed to fight the next election as a Labour MP after Sir Keir Starmer announced he would be barred from standing for the party.

The former leader said his successor’s decision to bar his candidacy was a “flagrant attack on the democratic rights of members”.

Feeling are running high in his Islington constituency!

Gotta love how if the general public get behind something because it appeals to them, the ones who don’t like whatever it is, call their views ‘populist’! And sometimes add the word ‘extremism’ to make the point even more derogatory.
😁

I think the left in general wanted "remain and reform".

yes, I think they are rather anti EU, because it seems as if it is there to serve the interests of business rather than to improve society for the majority.
Around the time of the referendum the EU was trying to negotiate a transatlantic trade deal which the left were afraid would introduce lower welfare standards, rather like the deal that Michael Gove was interested in pursuing with Donald Trump. This led some people on the left to vote for Brexit, even though the deal was never brought about. The fear was there.

Whitewavemark2

The left are traditionally anti- EU.

But 66% of Labour voters voted Remain.

The left are traditionally anti- EU.

The idea that Corbyn was ever far left is laughable. He didn't propose or support any of the things the far left really want. He was just a bit further left than some.

I have to agree with you on the whole, Glorianny. I didn't think that the 2019 Labour manifesto was excessively left wing. It was quite reasonable if looked at in the light of the postwar consensus on the mixed economy.

OTOH, I think that most of us knew that he was a Brexiter at heart, as has now been confirmed by Diane Abbot twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1626026676910972931) , and I can't help wondering if his enthusiasm for that General Election, when Johnson was on the Parliamentary ropes, so to speak, was because he too, wanted Brexit Done.

I agree strongly with Glorianny and nightowl
The centre has certainly moved closer to the right. if by moderation you mean both the Government and the main opposition parties not wanting to change anything very much then yes.
There is no longer any left wing.
Both parties want more private providers in the NHS.
Both parties don't seem to have any willingness to welcome refugees.
Keir Starmer has made it very clear that anyone who would like to see a bit more social justice will not be welcome in his party. (and he does call it HIS party)

^ This extreme conservative government scares me and it’s by no means a foregone conclusion they won’t get in again at the next election.^

I just cannot see that they have enough time to drag themselves back to the centre and demonstrate that they care about the issues that concern so much of the electorate at the moment.

I cannot see that the tories can unite themselves enough, either.

It will be interesting to see what is in the revised NI Protocol and how it is received by the right wing of the party. Will it be regarded as a step too close to the EU?