Censorship or rewriting ?

Gagajo on of my close friends is Jewish, we took our children to the cinema to see The Witches…

Apparently, You can no longer be "as white as a sheet" or wear a black cloak, like the BFG. You must say 'enormous' instead of fat. Why are people so sensitive; where has sense of humour gone?

My children loved his books. Reading them didn’t turn them into racist misogynists. I don’t understand so much of so many things that are happening these day.

He was a really unpleasant man. I wonder what the people at the publishing house are like. Do you think none of them are misogynists?

Iam64

R D wasn’t an entirely pleasant man but he wrote fantastic books for children. Part of the joy of reading at any age, but especially throughout childhood Is being shocked and scared. We took our grandchikdren to Matilda the musical. They’d had the book read more than once, the two 7 year olds were frightened of Mrs Trunchball because she’s cruel to children and puts them in the chokey. Both of them hid their faces at times but had a great time.

What about the witch in Hansel and Gretel? Will she have to be turned into a nice old thing who’s just a bit batty, then?

Me? I think it's appalling. Roald Dahl was who he was, a man of his time. He was a very talented writer of stories both for adults (which is how I encountered him as a teenager, how can you not love Lamb to the Slaughter, the first one I read?) and for children (my daughter loved his books). In many ways he was not a very nice man but that's by the by. If we took away all the creative works produced by deeply unpleasant people (not naming names here) the world would be a much poorer place.

I'm with Philip Pullman, here, as reported from R4 this morning. Rather than bowdlerise Dahl's books, simply let them fade away as new children's authors, more in tune with today's children and their world, emerge.

No. They exist in innocence and so they should. They will also know that their parents would not have read anything they felt was harmful or upsetting.

Because you grew up and realised that your mum, dad, grandparents and teachers read it to you when you could not make that decision.
Children don’t exist in a vacuum

Dahl was a very clever writer but his antisemitism was abhorrent. I just feel that children probably won't understand unless it is pointed out to them and why would you do that.

And, for what it’s worth, I love RD’s short stories for adults.
I will always be a fan.
I’m able to separate the artist from the art

MaizieD have you read my post about The Witches?
Dahl’s antisemitism went beyond his description of noses

GagaJo

AGAA4

Do children when they read The Witches say 'this is anti semetic'? I doubt it. My GCs read it and found it fun.
This is adults making choices for children who just think witches are ugly hook nosed people as have been depicted through history.
I don't like people who think they know better making choices for me.

Is your family Jewish? Would you be OK with Jewish children reading it?

It's bizarre, really. Not all Jews have hook noses and not all people with hook noses are Jews. How would a child even connect the two, unless they'd been specifically told about the possible connection? It never occurred to me, and I've had to read the damn book several times because I supported an English teacher for a couple of years who insisted on doing it with all her Y7 groups. (Who didn't really seem to enjoy it very much)

FWIW, I think The Witches is a horrible book; I have read other RD books that pleased me more.

It’s shocking and upsetting to realise that what we believed to be benign may not be so.
But we have to encounter it, employ critical thinking and develop nuanced responses.
I’m sorry if that sounds preachy or ‘woke’.
I assure you that I’m neither

GagaJo that is a personal question which you shouldn't be asking. My religion has nothing to do with you.

AGAA4

Do children when they read The Witches say 'this is anti semetic'? I doubt it. My GCs read it and found it fun.
This is adults making choices for children who just think witches are ugly hook nosed people as have been depicted through history.
I don't like people who think they know better making choices for me.

Is your family Jewish? Would you be OK with Jewish children reading it?

I think it is important that we know what children are reading, and that we can discuss and sometimes challenge possible contentious content with them.

Exactly Farzanah!

My reading matter as a child was Grimm’s Fairy Tales which wouldn’t be recommended I imagine, in todays climate. I don’t think I’ve become a more sadistic person because of that early experience.

My children read Dahl’s books and liked some, but not all. I think it is important that we know what children are reading, and that we can discuss and sometimes challenge possible contentious content with them. Books and films have some influence on children, but there are so many wider influences, from parents, family, school and society for example.

This recent fuss about Dahl’s books has come about because Netflix have just spent millions on the rights to them apparently.

Do children when they read The Witches say 'this is anti semetic'? I doubt it. My GCs read it and found it fun.
This is adults making choices for children who just think witches are ugly hook nosed people as have been depicted through history.
I don't like people who think they know better making choices for me.

Great books written in a different time, use the language to educate children not just remove it to gloss over it. What a strange world we are living in, where some very young children can be exposed to some real threatening content a world where people are rightly encouraged to be more understanding, excepting and diverse, but yet the reality is a modern world that sees the worst kind on people printing, trolling, radicalising our young. And someone’s worried about the use of the words ‘ugly & fat’ crazy!

I was reading Stephen King books in my very early teens, they addressed the issues of child abuse frequently.

GagaJo

So, would we tolerate stories containing rapists or child molesters (probably yes, given that Michale Jackson's music is still around)?

I wonder how BAME people would feel about this issue? Because otherwise, it's just white people advocating acceptance of racism again.

By being anti censorship does not mean that (white) people are advocating racism. I have recently read John Grisham's first novel "A Time to Kill" which is set in a fictional town in Mississippi. In this book the n word is used frequently by both blacks and whites. It was published in 1989 and reading it in 2023 I felt a little uncomfortable but I accept that the language used was common in 1989.

Mark Twain has been added to the list of authors whose writings should be changed.

If you are reader of crime novels child molesters and rapists are often mentioned. These crimes happen in real life as we know so well.

When I was a child I read the Greyfriars School novels which featured Billy Bunter. That didn't make me fat shame any overweight person that I met.

If I was a supporter of changing texts my first choice would be the Tenant of Wildfell Hall, which is hailed by many as the first feminist novel. I found Helen Graham to be rather wimpish and irritating but women did not have the freedom that they now have and I accept that.

I find the current cries for censorship appalling. How are we to know what earlier generations felt and thought if the words they wrote are to altered to suit current sensibilities.

We had a member of staff who hated Dahl and always chose different authors to teach. I think this was fine. He was covered in other classes and these days his work is found all over the place, so children will know about it.
Of course it may become like some books which were censored, with original copies being passed around. Who knows it might make them more attractive. Instead of accessing unsuitable things online children will secretly pass round the originals

What do you know about the publishers who are undertaking this. I am always astounded that people will hand control of words to people they know nothing about.

GagaJo

GrannyGravy13

Chardy

Of course if you want your grandchildren to read them, you can talk about all kinds of issues (providing you read it yourself first!). But little kids get these books out of the library, or read them on their own in school, and don't have a chance to discuss them with an adult.
I don't want censorship either, for adults, but taking the golliwogs out of Noddy is just updating them, not censorship. I'm sure there are still copies about if you want golliwogs in them.

taking the golliwog out of Noddy

this could be looked at from the point of view that the only toy of colour has been airbrushed out of Toyland.

Or maybe just put a person of colour in instead of a racist caricature?

I haven’t watched Noddy for many many years.

From my memory they were Toys, not people.

Don’t forget Madame Butterfly, or many other operas…