The absolute arrogance of these wild life slaughterers

LondonMzFitz

ExperiencedNotOld

Fleurpepper - hunting by drag is a legal activity. Badger baiting is not, albeit badger culling is legal. There are clear rules for both.
You cannot cast all as breaking law when most aim to operate within that. Riders go for the thrill of riding cross country, keeping up with the chase, for the social side - not to see the kill.
That’s why I object to the reference to ‘toffs’. Hunt members are people lucky enough to own or borrow horse. Many make financial sacrifices to ride.
There’s more to an argument that they one any person chooses to believe at any given time, where reasoned discussion may enlighten.

Pay particular attention to the most aim to operate within the law.

If, as you say, riders go for the thrill of riding cross country, why take dogs with them? And "financial sacrifices" to go hunting - is that supposed to provoke sympathy? Any activity has a cost attached - fishing, reading books, etc - I don't know anyone on an average wage that could afford to own or know people whereby they could borrow a horse. But I move in different circles ....

You would be surprised who can afford to keep a horse, DIL runs a DIY livery yard, one young woman has 5 they are older horses and doesn’t pay for them, some she uses for hacking. She just works all hours to keep the horses it’s her hobby, her kids are old enough to help out, she is probably the best horse owner on the yard and pays on time too.

I try not to get involved in disputes where each side is deaf to the other side's arguments. If people break the law they should be prosecuted (if there is a reasonable chance of success) and if either side think the present law is unsatisfactory they can lobby to have it changed.

LondonMzFitz I obviously need a fox to control the rabbit population, although buzzards take them out too. That is natural.

Rather than kill pests there are other ways of protecting crops. We have a poly tunnel, cages and cloches to stop deer and rabbits from eating them. In the flower borders I’ve learnt to grow plants that deer and rabbits don’t like. So you learn to live with them.

LondonMzFitz

*What do you mean 'you move in different circles'?? how do you know what circles some of us move in?*

That's a comment I made. As my GN name would suggest, I lived in London my entire life until moving 12 months ago to a small Village in Lincolnshire. Foxes in London are/were daily (nightly) visitors. Apart from ripping up bin bags they were a delight to watch. I've seen possibly two or three in the last 12 months, dead in the road having been hit by cars.

My Village has been visited by hare coursers - police were on them immediately - very heartening.

Yes, and apologies, I realised this after I posted. But comment still stands. Wild assumptions are made all the time by some on GN about other grans. Many of us have been accused of representing the Far Left- when it is totally false and so wide off the mark.

We have been told on this thread that some of us don't understand Hunting, because we don't live in rural areas and don't understand.

Very few of us on GN know each other, and who we are.

Some Counties have much better, and much better training and commitment than other Police Wildlife teams- with a much faster response. As said before, wildlife groups like your local Badger Trust group- will get a much faster response and know exactly who to contact in an emergency- dialling 999 is unlikely to produce results.

25Avalon

There was a rabbit sat on my driveway transfixed by my headlights. Rabbits have destroyed trees and other plants that I have nurtured. They are a serious pest. I was tempted to run it over but I could't do it. I'm not a soft townie either.

There is a (justified, in my view) point of view that rabbits, mice, rats, moles, foxes etc don't see it as your garden, your plants. They aren't aware of boundaries, much like cats. It's there to be explored, a food source, a home. I think once you get your head around that your more inclined to be sympathetic to wild animals.

There was a woman ranting about rats in her garden on video some years ago, while others tried to explain "it's what they do" - her, in complete indignation "But it's my garden". The wildlife was there before her, before you and I.

There was a rabbit sat on my driveway transfixed by my headlights. Rabbits have destroyed trees and other plants that I have nurtured. They are a serious pest. I was tempted to run it over but I could't do it. I'm not a soft townie either.

What do you mean 'you move in different circles'?? how do you know what circles some of us move in?

That's a comment I made. As my GN name would suggest, I lived in London my entire life until moving 12 months ago to a small Village in Lincolnshire. Foxes in London are/were daily (nightly) visitors. Apart from ripping up bin bags they were a delight to watch. I've seen possibly two or three in the last 12 months, dead in the road having been hit by cars.

My Village has been visited by hare coursers - police were on them immediately - very heartening.

ExperiencedNotOld

Fleurpepper - hunting by drag is a legal activity. Badger baiting is not, albeit badger culling is legal. There are clear rules for both.
You cannot cast all as breaking law when most aim to operate within that. Riders go for the thrill of riding cross country, keeping up with the chase, for the social side - not to see the kill.
That’s why I object to the reference to ‘toffs’. Hunt members are people lucky enough to own or borrow horse. Many make financial sacrifices to ride.
There’s more to an argument that they one any person chooses to believe at any given time, where reasoned discussion may enlighten.

I am fully aware of this, a lot more than you can imagine!

But drag hunting is used as an excuse in many cases, so is having a bird of prey present. And yes, the activities of the poney club are linked to the Hunt. Many friends who ride and some who hunt, have told me that if you want the 'thrill of riging across the countryside' - joining a hunt is really the only way. Some told me they actually hated the 'hunting bit' and made sure they were never around that part. And their disgust for cubbing.

I certainly never made allusions to 'toffs' either. And I know Hunts have become more demographically diverse- but those I know are all very rich as well of excellent 'breeding'. Hunting is not cheap, for sure- your average nurse or teacher is unlikey to take part.

As said, I lived for so long in the middle of 5 of the most well-known Hunts. A lot of the illegal activities were linked to their terrier men- the wo/men in red coats were fully aware, but closed a blind eye- as they needed their services.

What do you mean 'you move in different circles'?? how do you know what circles some of us move in?

Fact is, support for Hunting is at an all time low. So it seems quite normal that the majority on GN are against it- and probably very knowledgeable of the countryside and how it ticks.

ExperiencedNotOld

I’d disagree. The OP doesn’t make that clear, albeit that may well have been what was intended.
Comments since have inferred that all hunts set out to break the law, when I know they do try to keep within it, barring accidental incidents. And that incursion is happening day by day, as I’ve said previously, there’s not enough hunts for that to be true.
Hunt saboteurs are equally unpleasant people as those that have broken the law through their manipulation of those not in full understanding of what happens when hunting. Much of what they circulate are mistruths, such as past photographs being represented as recent happenings, for one.
I was brought up in the archetypical hunting/shooting/fishing lifestyle and have always paid respect to animal life. That’s another facet of life not shared by some, not something wrong and bad and horrendous.
Once again a reasonable discussion is being drowned out by the regular shouters on GN.

I think this is an unfair summary of this thread.

There have been 87 posts over 4 pages from 31 different posters. The vast majority are against fox hunting, with just 2 in favour. As one of those 2, ExperiencedNotOld, I expect you do feel you are being shouted down. However the Great British Public are 84% in favour of the Hunting Ban being strengthened, as can be shown on this Petition - warning, the photograph on the attached Petition link shows a fox cub about to be thrown to hounds :https://www.change.org/p/strengthen-the-ban-on-fox-hunting

You are in the >16% of this demographic and yet cry you are being shouted down, when all I've seen is that your views have been challenged with hard facts.

Note - the picture in the Petition link is from video of Master of Hounds Paul Oliver and his partner throwing live fox cubs to the hounds in 2019 - this following link to a Press Association report of them and others being taken to Court doesn't show any disturbing photos but the headline is sickening. Respect to animal life? These people are professional Countrymen/women. www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/animal-cruelty-fox-hounds-hunting-16389709

I have only just stumbled across this thread and my blood is boiling. How can there ever be a sport in which defenceless creatures die? I have lost my belief in the good in some people a long time ago

Amber gaze

LondonMzFitz

ExperiencedNotOld

www.countryside-alliance.org/news/2023/2/hunts-saboteurs-launch-attack-on-vegan-market-orga?utm_content=162668009&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&hss_channel=fbp-116283685076903&fbclid=IwAR2r59S-astk1UwtzR10QSSMkHm9Bu9Jxmmnt1LnWcvemoglBafI4FjMiyU

An example of the manipulation mentioned.

The source, Countryside Alliance, have a vested interest in promoting "evil sabs". From their own website = www.countryside-alliance.org/our-work/campaign-for-hunting

Lets look at a more balance view from the RSPCA - www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/hunting/facts

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Some people have no feeling and are cruel.,

Well you wouldn’t want to live here because they kill anything that moves. Foxes, rabbits, deer,ducks, wild horses, dogs,cats all fair ‘game’. It makes me sick and the excuse given is that they are not native animals. They also regularly cull kangaroos and have almost wiped out dingos. Last time I looked, the latter were natives.

There is no principle difference between blood sports in this country to those dreadful people who hunt big game like those beautiful big cats and elephants simply for the pleasure of killing them.

I simply cannot get my head around those who take pleasure from killing such fantastic species that we share our planet with.

There was a photo this week on twitter showing a picture of a woman laying down beside a giraffe she had just killed.

Sociopaths!

ExperiencedNotOld

www.countryside-alliance.org/news/2023/2/hunts-saboteurs-launch-attack-on-vegan-market-orga?utm_content=162668009&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&hss_channel=fbp-116283685076903&fbclid=IwAR2r59S-astk1UwtzR10QSSMkHm9Bu9Jxmmnt1LnWcvemoglBafI4FjMiyU

An example of the manipulation mentioned.

The source, Countryside Alliance, have a vested interest in promoting "evil sabs". From their own website = www.countryside-alliance.org/our-work/campaign-for-hunting

Lets look at a more balance view from the RSPCA - www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/hunting/facts

ExperiencedNotOld

Fleurpepper - hunting by drag is a legal activity. Badger baiting is not, albeit badger culling is legal. There are clear rules for both.
You cannot cast all as breaking law when most aim to operate within that. Riders go for the thrill of riding cross country, keeping up with the chase, for the social side - not to see the kill.
That’s why I object to the reference to ‘toffs’. Hunt members are people lucky enough to own or borrow horse. Many make financial sacrifices to ride.
There’s more to an argument that they one any person chooses to believe at any given time, where reasoned discussion may enlighten.

Pay particular attention to the most aim to operate within the law.

If, as you say, riders go for the thrill of riding cross country, why take dogs with them? And "financial sacrifices" to go hunting - is that supposed to provoke sympathy? Any activity has a cost attached - fishing, reading books, etc - I don't know anyone on an average wage that could afford to own or know people whereby they could borrow a horse. But I move in different circles ....

www.countryside-alliance.org/news/2023/2/hunts-saboteurs-launch-attack-on-vegan-market-orga?utm_content=162668009&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&hss_channel=fbp-116283685076903&fbclid=IwAR2r59S-astk1UwtzR10QSSMkHm9Bu9Jxmmnt1LnWcvemoglBafI4FjMiyU

An example of the manipulation mentioned.

Fleurpepper - hunting by drag is a legal activity. Badger baiting is not, albeit badger culling is legal. There are clear rules for both.
You cannot cast all as breaking law when most aim to operate within that. Riders go for the thrill of riding cross country, keeping up with the chase, for the social side - not to see the kill.
That’s why I object to the reference to ‘toffs’. Hunt members are people lucky enough to own or borrow horse. Many make financial sacrifices to ride.
There’s more to an argument that they one any person chooses to believe at any given time, where reasoned discussion may enlighten.

I’d disagree. The OP doesn’t make that clear, albeit that may well have been what was intended.
Comments since have inferred that all hunts set out to break the law, when I know they do try to keep within it, barring accidental incidents. And that incursion is happening day by day, as I’ve said previously, there’s not enough hunts for that to be true.
Hunt saboteurs are equally unpleasant people as those that have broken the law through their manipulation of those not in full understanding of what happens when hunting. Much of what they circulate are mistruths, such as past photographs being represented as recent happenings, for one.
I was brought up in the archetypical hunting/shooting/fishing lifestyle and have always paid respect to animal life. That’s another facet of life not shared by some, not something wrong and bad and horrendous.
Once again a reasonable discussion is being drowned out by the regular shouters on GN.

ExperiencedNotOld

Katie59

Floriel

I think it’s a great sport and I’ve always longed to hunt. And I’m very anti-hare coursing, but I expect the collective venom of GN will now fall upon my head.

You shouldn’t stir the pot most on GN are genuine animal welfare supporters

All the more reason in my book. The majority cannot run by mob. I too support all organised and legal country sports.

I would like to point out that as there is no hunting of live quarry, I.e. the fox, there is no longer any cubbing taking place. The hunt flow the drag scent.

I suppose that’ll set them off again….

But that is the problem, there is hunting of live foxes, and digging too. There is pretence that they do drag hunting- but that is NOT the reality. And they use birds of prey to pretend they are using them instead, which is still legal.

So, should an open Forum accept approving of illegal activities? Criminal activities?

Where do we stop- trophy hunting, dog fighting, badger baiting?

The op is about people illegally hunting live foxes.

fancythat

Katie59

Floriel

I think it’s a great sport and I’ve always longed to hunt. And I’m very anti-hare coursing, but I expect the collective venom of GN will now fall upon my head.

You shouldn’t stir the pot most on GN are genuine animal welfare supporters

stir the pot?

Who says one person's opinion is more valid than another's?
I wish there were 100 different opinions on a subject. I want to hear them all!
Assuming keeping in GN rules.

I dont agre with people being shot down/not heard/made to feel inadequate/ less of a person etc etc.

It is all so stifling.

Thank you. That’s refreshing to hear. But I think there are many that’ll feign deafness.

Katie59

Floriel

I think it’s a great sport and I’ve always longed to hunt. And I’m very anti-hare coursing, but I expect the collective venom of GN will now fall upon my head.

You shouldn’t stir the pot most on GN are genuine animal welfare supporters

All the more reason in my book. The majority cannot run by mob. I too support all organised and legal country sports.

I would like to point out that as there is no hunting of live quarry, I.e. the fox, there is no longer any cubbing taking place. The hunt flow the drag scent.

I suppose that’ll set them off again….

It’s a falsity for the hunt brigade to try to justify their actions in controlling the fox population for our own good.
The ironical truth is that the fox population has been massively artificially increased and added to for centuries so that the “sport” can continue.