Jailed for manslaughter

Unless someone on here was present throughout the trial and heard all the evidence, how can we possibly second guess what the 'right' verdict should have been.

Yes, it appears exceptional on the surface, but that only suggest to me that there were exceptional circumstances to the case that have not been revealed in the press.

In the meanwhile the convicted woman has rights of appeal, and will, presumably use them.

No*ronib*, that’s not community living arrangements, which is when people live in a group setting in the community with staff working with the residents in a group home because they are unable to live independently. Sheltered accommodation is a place where there are units of accommodation adapted to the needs of the residents, but their activities aren’t supervised in any way. Sometimes there is a warden in a sheltered living complex, sometimes visiting social care staff, sometimes it is literally just units of suitable accommodation.

Casdon It’s reported that Auriol Grey lived in specially adapted sheltered accommodation. Sounds like community living arrangements?

This lady wouldn’t have met any threshold for admission to an institution, or for community living facilities though, if the judge’s ruling is based on correct information about her life.

I don;t think so either

Part of my role in the early 2000s was to support people moving out of the long stay hospitals, I was incredibly naive and just couldnt believe they still existed. I can still picture my first visit as clear as day. That is not to say that I havent seen some crap community care but I think that you can provide good care in small community homes I d9nt think it's possible in those institutions.

I’m sorry my phone is autocorrecting now, I obviously meant were

I should have said placed rather than put but some of them (most of them?) we’re sectioned and taken against their will and that of their families in the most inappropriate manner, in my opinion.

Galaxy there was a program not so long ago about how people with autism, some very young, who are still put in privately run hospitals which are completely unsuitable. The placements are supposed to be for assessment purpose and medication reviews but people spend years in them. In the same program it covered a brand new hospital that I’m not going to name that can only be described as institutionalised care

Or it could be experience rather than emotion. Having seen the institutions that were running even in the mid 2000s I can say it's a mix of emotion and experience that say they were completely unsuitable places for people.

Blossoming

JaneJudge with respect your daughter was not the person on trial here. You are letting your experience colour your reading of the case.

Yes, I most probably am. I think that’s quite normal though. I also agree with you Casdon

Where I live there are quite a few officially shared pedestrian/cyclist paths and they seem to work pretty much okay. I have never had a problem with cyclists and they have never had a problem with me. I have certainly not read any reports of problems or nasty encounters in our local papers. I do have an issue with younger kids on bikes and scooters who tend to race along pavements that are not officially shared and sometime a bit narrow. I understand that young children are safer on the pavement than on the road, but I think that once they become teenagers, they should cycle on the road. They all get voluntary road safety training from the police at school. At my age, I not so fast or steady on my feet getting out of the way and they really do whizz along.

JaneJudge with respect your daughter was not the person on trial here. You are letting your experience colour your reading of the case.

Thanks for the link Blossoming. I see it as a clear case of manslaughter - as did the jury. Any assault leading to death should be.

" It’s very difficult for statutory services to be involved with people like her if they don’t welcome what we would see as support but they may well see as interference."

Well, denial there is a problem, as they see their world as we would, "normal"

There isnt a single solution to fit all: often intervention only happens when there is a crisis like this, but when it does happen, there aren't enough services for complex psychiatric or neurological in-patient intervention.

The court heard that Auriol Grey did "not express a word of remorse" until the sentencing hearing, and left the scene of the crash prior to the arrival of emergency services to go shopping at Sainsbury's. Jurors also heard that the driver of the car had no time to stop or change course of action when Ms Ward fell into her pathway
.CCTV shows Auriol Grey shout "get off the f**** pavement" as Celia Ward approached her in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, in October 2020.

JaneJudge

Blossoming, I read it and felt it was quite a neurotypical response but I've also got access to my own daughters meetings and notes and professionals don't detail everything properly or use the correct language. If this lady had no advocacy or family it is even more difficult to get a clear picture as to whether she was being supported properly (if she needed to)
it is troubling

Reading the judgement Blossoming posted, I thought it was most likely to be that she was living completely independently, it sounds as though she is of normal intellectual capacity but clearly has a degree of cognitive impairment. It’s very difficult for statutory services to be involved with people like her if they don’t welcome what we would see as support but they may well see as interference.

I will never understand the way the courts decide sentences.

We have heard many stories of people that have punched people and killed them, yet I'm sure have recieved more lenient sentences.

Blossoming, I read it and felt it was quite a neurotypical response but I've also got access to my own daughters meetings and notes and professionals don't detail everything properly or use the correct language. If this lady had no advocacy or family it is even more difficult to get a clear picture as to whether she was being supported properly (if she needed to)
it is troubling

I strongly urge all the commenters on this thread to read the actual judgement. There are a number of erroneous assumptions being made. For instance, she did not carry on walking after the cyclist fell. She offered assistance but other helpers ushered her away. The below link should work,

rozenberg.substack.com/p/why-grey-got-three-years

Respite doesn't exist anymore. My friend is waiting for respite for her adult child and she's been told she can only get it if she does the medication herself several times a day and the respite placement is miles away. When my own child reached adulthood we were told the waiting list for respite in adult services was 2000 client long, so although we qualified we would have to wait for people to die.

This is the reality

Places like that big hospital in Northants (ie an institution) have no place in modern society but I understand fully well how nothing progressive has been purposely happening in community care for the last decade at the very least

It is bleak. Those secure places of respite dont exist anymore.

Tiny number of secure psychiatric prisons take women, but they only take extremely dangerous people, and most are sent to ordinary women's prisons.

Dickens

JaneJudge Wed 08-Mar-23 21:27:44

Also the institutions haven’t been shut down either YET but there is no place for them.

I think many have.

I disagree that there is no place for them. Not as the institutions that they were, but as places of respite for those that need more care than can currently be offered in the community.

There is no logical reason why such respites could not be places where people are treated with respect and kindness in decent, comfortable surroundings, when it is apparent that they simply cannot manage in the community, one which - apart from those involved in their care - is often indifferent or even hostile to their needs and their situations.

I agree, and there is a also small cohort of people for whom community care will never be an option because their disabilities and physical health problems as well as mental health issues together mean that they need continuous medical and nursing care. A very small number of this group need permanent hospital care. There’s a very wide spectrum of need.

JaneJudge Wed 08-Mar-23 21:27:44

Also the institutions haven’t been shut down either YET but there is no place for them.

I think many have.

I disagree that there is no place for them. Not as the institutions that they were, but as places of respite for those that need more care than can currently be offered in the community.

There is no logical reason why such respites could not be places where people are treated with respect and kindness in decent, comfortable surroundings, when it is apparent that they simply cannot manage in the community, one which - apart from those involved in their care - is often indifferent or even hostile to their needs and their situations.

Most mental health care in the community is atrocious. Not because the staff are bad at the their jobs but because there are not enough of them. In this area there are no specialists for Child Psychiatrists available. CAHMs just reject everybody they can.
People with drug and alcohol problems are very often mentally ill but there is little help without going to rehab (more difficult to get into than you would think even when you want to) and although MH and addiction are often linked, they are dealt with by 2 separate departments with little continuity or contact.
People with specific needs like autism or ADHD generally have to fight for services even though they find that difficult because there aren't enough Adult Social Workers available and even when there is, funding for the help they need is pitiful.
Anybody who thinks this lady going into prison will get help obviously has no experience of the prison system. Even those who have psychiatric help in place when they are admitted rarely get it continued. The whole system is broken and there is little money to put it right. Quite frankly it is bleak.