Braverman's propaganda

Oreo

Why continue with ridiculous 10,000 year old migrant themes
Maremia
We’re talking of the here and now and what to do about 45,000 or more illegal immigrants landing here in small boats.

Oreo - until we process their applications for asylum how do we know who is illegally here??

Sorry growstuff missed your post re this.

tickingbird

^My ancestors came in from Doggerland, (I think you laughed about that...or maybe it was somebody else...). Whatever, the fact that on at least one line I have genes that can be traced back to the original settlers on these Isles does not mean that I don't have genes from later settlers. I certainly have Irish ancestors. Probably some Vikings too. Incidentally 10,000 years ago there was no England or Scotland. Maybe you missed that bit^

No volver it is you that’s confused. I didn’t laugh and didn’t comment either AND that isn’t what you posted at the time. Am I surprised? No. Same old, same old…..,

Oh, I know why you're confused!

All the people on my tree going back about 8 generations are Scottish. That's about 200 years. But there are Irish-origin surnames there, which indicates some of the people came over from Ireland in previous generations. Given where I live, it would be miraculous if there were no Vikings in my ancestry. But, at least some of my ancestors arrived 10,000 years ago by walking in from Doggerland.

Its confusing for some, this genealogy thing, isn't it tickingbird? We can start a new thread in the Genealogy forum, if you'd like to understand a bit more?

😉

tickingbird

^What are they doing that is illegal?^

Entering a country without a passport or documentation - illegal by any country’s laws I imagine.

Ah, your imagination letting you down a bit there tickingbird. It's not illegal to arrive undocumented in any country with the intention of claiming asylum.

More broadly, I think this is where the propaganda of Braverman and her peers has most succeeded.

Much of the population think that it's illegal to arrive here in a small boat. They also think we are being overrun by migrants out to get something over on us. And that being put up in the 4* hotels is every migrant's dream

They also never give a second thought to the fact that everybody wants people removed from the country if they do not have a reasonable claim to settle here. And that the people who come here are being used by the Tory government to cause division in the UK population.

I don't suppose I should be surprised that so many of the UK population are so gullible, but it is still a disappointment to me.

tickingbird

^What are they doing that is illegal?^

Entering a country without a passport or documentation - illegal by any country’s laws I imagine.

You imagine wrong!

It is not illegal to enter a country without a passport or documentation, provided an immediate application for asylum is made.

volver3

Gosh, what a memory you have tickingbird. You're a bit confused though.

My ancestors came in from Doggerland, (I think you laughed about that...or maybe it was somebody else...). Whatever, the fact that on at least one line I have genes that can be traced back to the original settlers on these Isles does not mean that I don't have genes from later settlers. I certainly have Irish ancestors. Probably some Vikings too. Incidentally 10,000 years ago there was no England or Scotland. Maybe you missed that bit.

What you also missed is that no-one is advocating open borders and that Brexit has made it more difficult to deal with the people arriving on our shores.

There wasn't even a country called "England" until about 1000 years ago.

I've traced some of my family lines back 13 generations and I'm about as "English" as anybody could be.

Go back a little further and some of those pesky foreigners creep in.

I posted this on the genealogy forum a few days ago:

www.historytoday.com/archive/englands-first-refugees

It could have been written about the situation today.

People who can cross Europe and make it to the UK against all the odds not only deserve proper consideration of their asylum claims but are likely to be the kind of individuals with grit, determination and initiative this country needs in its workforce and business community. The Tories' use of them to whip up anti-immigrant, racist feelings may help them avoid a total wipe out at election time but is contrary to the best interests of the UK. Braverman's Rwanda scheme is disgusting.

Summerfly

After visiting a seaside town recently, I was shocked to see large numbers of immigrants, all men, just kicking their heels with nothing to do all day. It’s a sad sight to see. Wouldn’t it be better to find some form of work for them, to earn their own money?

Exactly. Can't they go to the farms that desperately need workers in Lincolnshire?

Braverman will of course have the same report, but will have suppressed it.

Rwanda
“the US government, has just slated the repressive and bloodstained dictatorship in its annual human rights assessment?”

Almost all of us are descendants of migrants, in my case Dads side were Saxons, Mums side Norman French so probably Viking. Current migrations will mean that we will eventually become mostly mixed or Mulatto as they are in many Latin countries.

This draconian legislation will not only make anyone arriving here a criminal, it will make them and their children unable to ever claim asylum or to enter the UK. Now if it is made law (as seems likely at the moment) couldn't we back date it somehow and remove the undesirables who seem happy to pull up the bridge that enabled them and their families to find safety and shelter ? (I'd happily let the parents, who seem hard working reasonable people, stay but the three children should go) Their values are not my values and as far as I know have never been British values.(You know the three I mean)

Katie59

Almost all of us are descendants of migrants, in my case Dads side were Saxons, Mums side Norman French so probably Viking. Current migrations will mean that we will eventually become mostly mixed or Mulatto as they are in many Latin countries.

Nothing wrong with that, though, is there?

In the 2021 census some 80% of English and Welsh respondents identified as 'white' (Scotland and NI have separate censuses). I don't think that the 'mixing' will happen very soon...

(I'm not altogether sure if 'Mulatto' is an appropriate adjective to use these days)

Just by recent racial mingling in our families (within the last 100 years) my children have German and Black DNA, in addition to whatever mix our earlier, predominantly British, ancestors have. We've been a 'mongrel' race for 1,000s of years.

One race that we all share is the human race, and I feel so sad that some of us who are lucky enough, by accident of birth, to be born in a safe country, cannot show compassion to those who haven’t had this advantage.

If we were placed “behind the veil of ignorance” as John Rawls the philosopher said, would we still be advocating solutions, such as the Rwanda deal, to refugees?

I don’t think anyone believes in an “open door” policy, but there must be a more humane way of dealing fairly with refugees, rather than treating them as unwanted cargo, to be discarded to whichever country can be “bribed” to take them.

Golly Lizbethann, that's a very strange reaction to my post. Did I refer anywhere to the "aging useless"? I think not. Please look at what I said about population. A lifetime in education leaves me with an antipathy to statistics being used erroneously. You can take the woman out of the classroom, but ..
Intelligent debate,I hope that you would agree, should be based on facts, whether you like them or not.

Glorianny

This draconian legislation will not only make anyone arriving here a criminal, it will make them and their children unable to ever claim asylum or to enter the UK. Now if it is made law (as seems likely at the moment) couldn't we back date it somehow and remove the undesirables who seem happy to pull up the bridge that enabled them and their families to find safety and shelter ? (I'd happily let the parents, who seem hard working reasonable people, stay but the three children should go) Their values are not my values and as far as I know have never been British values.(You know the three I mean)

If there are spare seats on a plane to Rwanda, I can think of quite a few people without any immediate immigrant background I'd like to put in them.

Gagajo Exactly. Can’t they go to the farms that desperately need workers in Lincolnshire?

Yes! So many growers crying out for help, probably in other areas in the UK too. Before anyone jumps in with the “slave labour card”, these people would benefit from a decent wage and be able to fund themselves. Better than hanging around with nothing to do.

If there are spare seats on a plane to Rwanda, I can think of quite a few people without any immediate immigrant background I'd like to put in them. Ditto growstuff!

It’s rather comical watching the mental gymnastics of certain posters - claiming England didn’t exist 10000 years ago, everyone’s an immigrant - even volver now it suits her argument on this thread - you’re right volver I do have an exceptional memory and it’s interesting how your ‘facts’ change depending on which thread you’re on.

This “we’re all immigrants” nonsense is pretty pathetic. Everyone on the planet’s an immigrant then or is it just the English? Did Scotland exist 10000 years ago?? Did Mr & Mrs Sturgeon resign before they were pushed? Will the missing £600,000 ever be found. 😂😂😂😂

tickingbird 😂😂
Have to say all those posts made me laugh too.
Desperate types of comments really.

tickingbird

It’s rather comical watching the mental gymnastics of certain posters - claiming England didn’t exist 10000 years ago, everyone’s an immigrant - even volver now it suits her argument on this thread - you’re right volver I do have an exceptional memory and it’s interesting how your ‘facts’ change depending on which thread you’re on.

This “we’re all immigrants” nonsense is pretty pathetic. Everyone on the planet’s an immigrant then or is it just the English? Did Scotland exist 10000 years ago?? Did Mr & Mrs Sturgeon resign before they were pushed? Will the missing £600,000 ever be found. 😂😂😂😂

Eh?

Are you aware how weird that all sounds?

You're not suggesting England existed 10,000 years ago? Even Tommy Robinson wouldn't go that far. (Would he?)

BTW, "Murrell", not "Sturgeon".

tickingbird I just ignore all the kiddy playground posts, it’s for the best

Oreo

tickingbird I just ignore all the kiddy playground posts, it’s for the best

Not true, you and tickingbird are just in a different gang, you’re still in the playground.

Are you watching over the hedge Casdon 😂 do you feel left out?

It’s simply best to avoid getting into spats with posters you know will just go on and on about something.
Life’s too short hey?