Junior doctors strike

My doctor had give part time 3 morning work only , because he told everyone he wanted a family life, but what he failed to say was the other days he was actually working in his private acupuncture clinic . Wouldn’t everyone like to have 32% pay increase ? I am saddened that it’s not a vocation anymore Just a job

Australia have just published figures showing migration from UK for Doctors and Nurses are at an all time high ! I wonder why !

I emphasise with Doctors, Nurses and Teachers, there are shortages in all these roles and frankly this govt needs to take a good long look and make some new priorities - without education and good health we have nothing !! Yep, 100% with the Junior Doctors

Easy bee it’s not incompetence, it’s exhaustion. This s exactly why the junior Drs are striking. They work ridiculous hours to the point where they can no longer think straight for a relatively small salary when you look at the years and years of study and experience they need. Of course mistakes happen. How do I know? I “donated” my sons to the nhs at the age of 18 and throughout their training saw them fleetingly and when I did, they were exhausted. When my eldest son became a consultant there was a fairly fast change for the better; he was better able to plan leave and was rarely called into the hospital overnight. The candidates for medicine are amongst the highest achievers leaving school and very hard working. They have to be to get accepted. I can’t begin to explain the sacrifices these young men and women have made for their career and how hard they work. Please support them.

Primrose53

I heard a man on the Jeremy Vine Show this morning saying that someone he knows is a newly qualified junior doctor who hasn’t even started working yet but has gone on strike! He says he knew what the pay would be, knew what the working conditions were and still made the choice to become a doctor.

Newly qualified doctors start on the first Wednesday in August, so if he hasn't already started there's a reason. fwiw, he will have made the decision to be a doctor in 2016, which is 7 years ago and salaries have been eroded since then. Do the maths. UCAS application, taking the UCAT or BMAT test, last year of "A" levels and a minimum of 5 years at university or perhaps you don't know the hoops that doctors jump through to qualify??

But he is how much in debt.

I heard a man on the Jeremy Vine Show this morning saying that someone he knows is a newly qualified junior doctor who hasn’t even started working yet but has gone on strike! He says he knew what the pay would be, knew what the working conditions were and still made the choice to become a doctor.

Zoe65

Well said plus the nice pensions these drs get eventually paid for by us

What are you saying, that they should work for a pittance given their qualifications and experience, and then not get a decent pension either? They contribute to society in a much greater way than most people do, it’s no wonder they feel undervalued if even their pensions are begrudged.

Well said plus the nice pensions these drs get eventually paid for by us

The 35% is what it would take to restore the 26% reduction in earnings.

Simple maths,

Having said that, I am sure the junior doctors would be willing to accept a lower offer after negotiation..

I do sympathise with their situation and it's not fair the hours they are expected to work with not enough qualified doctors. However to ask for 35% in this day and age is a bit much. Also the NHS should step up the amount of tests and testers that foreign doctors need to take when applying to work in UK.

Yammy

A very young close relation was rushed into hospital last night just before the strike began. They are not over the worst that is yet to come. I would love to know how any parent in that situation would feel. When there are people outside singing and dancing who could be helping?

My sympathy is with your relation and parents. However, that isn't a true picture of the situation, is it? We know there are arrangements to cover and that if these are not working because of a large issue (something like Grenfell) people will leave the picket lines to cover.

Surely the worry should be about when, having not been paid or treated properly by the government, and working in buildings that are falling down around them, there are very few doctors because they have left.

Then hand wringing will be most appropriate.

AuntieEleanorsCat

This appalling Govt has to go.

They’ve planned this public sector disaster right across the piece:- Drs, nurses, fire service, teachers. Then, we have Tory ministers wanting £10k for a “consultation”!!!

I’m furious on behalf of our workers.

Yes AuntieE’s cat, I’m furious in behalf of the junior doctors and workers in all our public services.
12 years of Tory misrule, with the aim of turning all our public services into profit making private industries.
This despite the failure of for example private children’s homes and the probation service

I haven’t seen anything of campaign about not going to hospital over Easter. Easter Monday isn’t a bank holiday in Scotland and certainly in my area the NHS was running Covid vax clinics yesterday.

One thing which must have changed since I worked in the NHS is the requirement to not be closed for two consecutive days. All services apart from outpatients had to work Saturday mornings. I worked one in two, or maybe three, (can’t quite recall!) Saturdays. I worked Boxing Days and Easter, too. It was just part of the job and actually was quite nice as there wasn’t the everyday hustle to cope with as well and there’d only be a few people in. I must admit, I’m agog that GP surgeries now close for four consecutive days at a time.

The entitlement thing is plain weird, Maddy. I went to the US last month and the cabin crew were telling me how much more demanding and unpleasant passengers are since Covid. I mean, why. What do they expect? It’s baffling.

All doctors deserve a pay rise, and a good one. Their pay has been held down for over ten years for goodness sake! Why don’t all doctors deserve a good pay rise
Lizbethann? The knowledge and skills that doctors possess is unique, and where would we be without them? Many of us probably not here! I certainly wouldn’t be as I’ve had several life threatening illnesses over the years and the doctors were always there when I needed them.

SueDonim I think you’re right about A+E. In general practice I think there are times doctors need to be social workers too, but my daughter’s last position before she emigrated was in a very well heeled area, and she told me that the sense of entitlement was huge. Patients sometimes demanded treatments even if not appropriate or supplied by the NHS. There was a tendency among some patients to make a complaint if their demands were not met. I’m thinking here of demands for sun screen on the NHS or nit lotion on prescription. Seriously, I’m not making this up. It’s unbelievable isn’t it?

What I would love to see happen is to get rid of the misnomer " junior" doctor. Maybe newly qualified doctors deserve a pay rise ( though not 35%) , but I very much doubt that more senior doctors are on the bread line. And if their main argument is overwork or stress or long hours then no payrise will alter that situation.

paddyann54

SueDonim There was a huge campaign here before the Easter weekend warning of the queues that were likely and advising people not to go uness it was an emergency .My friends daughter is a junior Doctor in an Edinburgh hospital and she also reported that it was much quieter than normal .
Maybe people are just getting the message at last to only head to A and E in emergencies.We can but hope .

Can I agin point out that Junior doctors in Scotland are NOT on strike

In fairness to the media, it’s been made clear that the junior doctors are only on strike in England Paddyann54. The problem lies in the government refusing to negotiate with them, which the devolved governments have tried to do, albeit within strict parameters of affordability as they need more funding for the NHS from central government.

SueDonim There was a huge campaign here before the Easter weekend warning of the queues that were likely and advising people not to go uness it was an emergency .My friends daughter is a junior Doctor in an Edinburgh hospital and she also reported that it was much quieter than normal .
Maybe people are just getting the message at last to only head to A and E in emergencies.We can but hope .

Can I agin point out that Junior doctors in Scotland are NOT on strike

Doctors have paid for their studies putting them into great debt. They have the choice stay in the UK or leave and work at better rates.

Many are leaving and you cannot blame them, others are staying and trying to get things changed. If they were paid better maybe more would stay. This of course would mean that everyone will have to pay more in their taxes like other EU countries.

The government want a US type of health care.

I think some of the issue, Maddy is that doctors are now having to be social workers as well. Many of the A&E cases dd sees are really cries for help because some people live such unfortunate lives and have nowhere else to turn.

Some are regulars with MH problems for which they’ve received all the help available but it hasn’t helped them. They live such chaotic lives and have no support system, so an A&E seems like a safe space for them.

There are time-wasters, of course. The ones that want a strip of paracetamol for a headache or come in at 3am with a stye on their eye or want the A&E medics to fast-track treatment their GP has recommended. (Her A&E can’t and won’t do this!) Sometimes they want a second opinion because they don’t like what another doctor has told them.

Life in all its glory is in A&E!

Sadly I support the strike. My son left the UK to start a new life in New Zealand after working as a junior doctor in the NHS. At the time he was sometimes required to work 92 hours in one week. He was exhausted and had very little time with his family. In New Zealand he feels valued and has a much better work / life balance. We need to pay our doctors fairly for the long training they have undertaken and for the great responsibility they carry.

The younger recently qualified junior doctors have my support. Others are going over the top, looking for a 20k increase in salary

Yammy I hope your relative recovers

SueDonim my daughter is a GP. She has often said that many patients don’t need to see a doctor and she considers them to be time wasters. However she knows that she must be professional with them regardless as she doesn’t want complaints against her. Other times seriously ill people present in her surgery and she has to administer life saving treatments and get ambulances etc. Then some one will complain that their appointment is late!

Thanks, Casdon we are all waiting for the outcome, they got in just in time.

Yammy

A very young close relation was rushed into hospital last night just before the strike began. They are not over the worst that is yet to come. I would love to know how any parent in that situation would feel. When there are people outside singing and dancing who could be helping?

The family and young person have my sympathy Yammy. If it was me in that position I would be relieved that they were already in hospital, because there are enough senior staff around to keep them relatively safe.

The blame lies with the government for this situation, that’s where all our anger should be directed. Underpaying professionals consistently for over ten years, professionals who have had to undergo far more training and gain more experience on the job than the vast majority of cabinet ministers have, and refusing to discuss their claim is insulting.

I may have said this further back on the thread but my dd worked in A&E all of the Easter weekend. Attendance levels were at 20% of their usual levels. Not 20% down but just 20% of what they’d expect on a normal weekend. Many of those were children who’d had accidents. .

I wonder why the the figures are so different.