Another Death at Aintree

MayBee70

I always thought that native ponies were less prone to laminitis. It is horrible. Horses and ponies have so many things that can go wrong with them.

Nope, quite the reverse. Native ponies can live on very poor grazing and live out in the harshest weather. Most horse grazing is too rich for them and they need to be very carefully managed or they easily become overweight which can lead to laminitis or EMS. I've had Welsh section As and Bs, also connie's, strip grazing and track systems were my best friend but they were all complete "houdinis" and none of them respected electric fencing unless it was on the mains!

MayBee70

I always thought that native ponies were less prone to laminitis. It is horrible. Horses and ponies have so many things that can go wrong with them.

Not necessarily. My friend had a Shetland who was very prone to laminitis, and at the stables where my daughter had her Exmoor, there was a Welsh Sec B pony which was the same. It is indeed a horrible condition.

I always thought that native ponies were less prone to laminitis. It is horrible. Horses and ponies have so many things that can go wrong with them.

Our Exmoor is called Merlin and he is 19 years old. We've had him since he was 4 years old,during which time he has been broken to ride and drive. We used to do both with him and have had some really good times, as well as exhibiting him in various local, and not so local shows. We did at one time have 5 of these lovely ponies, but age (us) decreed that we now have only one. Over the years we have lost some for various reasons, one being Laminitis,which is a horrible ailment. Colic being another awful affliction. Luckily our daughter has a small holding with animals various including two Shetlands, so if needs must, there is room for our boy to join them.

foxie48 having any animal euthanised is heartbreaking, I cried when I took DD’s very old hamster (nearly 4yrs old) to the vets to be PTS.

Animals take up a large space in our hearts ❤️

When my pony was pts (the dreaded colic) the man who came to take her away told me to leave the field and not watch. I planned to scatter her ashes in her field but after she died her horsey friends (I say friends but she was a bit like me, got on with the other horses but liked her own company!) moved away so she remains in my living room, hopefully to be buried with me if that’s allowed. Nothing is worse than colic*, especially if it happens at a time when the horse is alone, because we can’t be with them 24/7.
* horse attacks are but I’m not sure if they’re happening as much as when I had a pony: back then they tended not to be given any publicity for fear of copy cat attacks I’d actually forgotten how I worried about that happening back then.

I have had to have horses PTS and I've always done it at home in their field. I also let their companion horses into the field before the body is taken away so they can view and accept that their friend is no longer alive. I always stay with the horse while it is PTS (as I do with my dogs) but I never stay to watch the body being removed, I would find it too upsetting and I move the other horses into another paddock so they are out of the way. I've never used an abattoir but I wouldn't blame anyone who did. I know our local one treats horses well and does a humane job. My neighbour used the local hunt and I stayed with him as he used to be in one of our paddocks and knew me. The kennel man was extremely kind and efficient. Euthanasia is part and parcel of owning animals, always painful but IMO the last act of kindness that I can show. It's easier when they are very old and are ready to go but my last two were as a result of illness (strangulated colic) and serious injury, both were devastating.

Jaberwok

I think that before banning racing, people need to consider the wider picture as to what this would realistically mean for these animals, and perhaps stop using emotive words like abhorrent and barbaric, which racing most certainly is not. Yes There is always room for improvement and this is constantly being under discussion. We have (only one now) and have had Exmoor ponies for the past 25 years, and although not remotely like a racehorse (!) they can be tricky and slightly unpredictable, creatures of habit given to flight if upset. I suspect a lot of protesters actually don't know the first thing about horses!

Slightly off-topic here, but just wanted to say how jealous I am of your Exmoor. I love all horses and ponies, but Exmoors are my favourites. I learned to ride on an Exmoor at a very early age and my daughter's first pony was also an Exmoor. We're lucky enough to have two groups of Exmoors doing conservation grazing at sites near us, and I love to go and see them.

Granny Gravy, obviously the animal is put down in a secluded place.

One takes this precaution when one's pet is put to sleep in its own home, and a well conducted abattoir is also careful if only because panicking animals are harder to manage.

Caleo

MayBee wrote:

"So, what do you think should happen to horses?"

Just as you describe, the moral enlightenment of the stable lads but what I want to happen is their attitude prevailing over the myth that beautiful horses are nothing but machines for our pleasure.

I especially want worn out hoses to be euthanised where they live and not be transported anywhere else to be euthanised. I wish this for food animals too.

It is not common for horses/ponies to be euthanised in their own stable/field as it can be extremely unsettling for the other animals on the yard.

It is not pleasant to watch a dead horse/pony winched into a lorry, in fact it is extremely upsetting for all concerned.

MaisieD wrote:
"I don't think our forebears who utterly depended on those domesticated animals for their sustenance would have spent an iota of a second philosophising on that question, Caleo. Your 'myth' was their reality."

I think the real practicalities of everyday life is how all myths begin.
There comes a time when myths are past their usefulness. It's time now that we review how we use animals .

Not only travellers, one passport is sometimes used for several horses in all spheres of the horse world, and I know plenty of people who have acquired horses with a passport which has names crossed out, and dob’s that are found to bear no relation to their age

I completely agree with all your points MaizieD

I also share your interest Caleo in the myth that animals are here to be used, hence domestication and breeding. I don’t share some vegans’ views that humans should not use animals in any way, but I think we need to constantly re-examine our relationship with them. Just because we’ve always done something doesn’t mean we should continue - and that goes a lot further than horse racing.

MayBee wrote:

"So, what do you think should happen to horses?"

Just as you describe, the moral enlightenment of the stable lads but what I want to happen is their attitude prevailing over the myth that beautiful horses are nothing but machines for our pleasure.

I especially want worn out hoses to be euthanised where they live and not be transported anywhere else to be euthanised. I wish this for food animals too.

MaizieD

^All domesticated horses have to be registered and require a passport^

In theory, GG13, in theory!

I doubt very much if the gypsy cobs in the fields around me have passports...

Yes I know, they are not particular at following rules of any kind.

In their defence some travellers take good care of their ponies, unfortunately not all of them are that way inclined.

All domesticated horses have to be registered and require a passport

In theory, GG13, in theory!

I doubt very much if the gypsy cobs in the fields around me have passports...

And also because I am interested in the myth that animals are here to be used, hence domestication and breeding.

I don't think our forebears who utterly depended on those domesticated animals for their sustenance would have spent an iota of a second philosophising on that question, Caleo. Your 'myth' was their reality.

I read an article years ago that said in France horses were only bred from if they were sound, whereas in the UK if a mare is unsound she gets retired and bred from. I don’t know how true that is now (I read it a long long time ago). Mind you, many of the top NH racehorses are sourced from France.

MaizieD I agree with all points of your post.

I have no idea how the breeding of specific types of horses could be curtailed. All domesticated horses have to be registered and require a passport I am not sure if this applies to the wild moorland ponies.

There is now a crackdown on puppy farms could this be extended to equines?

I don’t know if the article I read meant that all horses have prehensile mouths or whether it’s just native ponies.

All horses have prehensile mouths, MayBee. I've watched my horse take a mouthful of grass, chew it and 'spit' out the tiny little bits of unpalatable plant that had been included in that mouthful. And they know what is good and bad for them when grazing. They are amazing animals. But you have to be close to them, physically and emotionally, to really appreciate their qualities.

While I appreciate how MayBee felt at the strong language being used about the GN and racing in general on this thread, I do think that we horse lovers and horse owners have to acknowledge the fact that there is massive over breeding of thoroughbreds for racing in Britain with, it seems, about 5,000 foals being born every year, of which only a small proportion even get as far as the race track.

With the best will in the world , we cannot realistically believe that the ones that don't make it are rehomed; there aren't enough horse owners in the UK to absorb those numbers, even fewer when we consider that thousands of non thoroughbreds are produced every year for riding purposes as well (gypsy cobs are a speciality in our area, fields full of them and I don't have a clue what they are all used for, you don't see many being ridden or driven).

If we can recognise that there is an oversupply of horses, yet condemn the inevitable end of many of them at an abattoir then we have to think of other ways of limiting the supply, both for racing, other equestrian sports and pleasure riding.

But I can see that it wouldn't be easy to do. A quota system for breeding racehorses might work but how do you control the private individuals who want to breed from an old mare, or the plethora of gypsy cobs, or people producing specific breeds or 'types' of horses and ponies?

What I do know is that people have an affinity with horses, in that same way that people feel dogs and cats (or other animals) are necessary to their lives and that no amount of tut tutting over humans 'using' animals is going to stop them owning and caring for them. I think that, for many, life without being able to make a bond with another animal would be intolerable. Admiring from afar would be no substitute.

So, what do you think should happen to horses?

MayBee wrote:

"Do you honestly think I don’t question it?"

I do, because your discussion of it was polemic as most people's are on Gransnet.

I chose to answer yours because you have personal experience of quality horses. And also because I am interested in the myth that animals are here to be used, hence domestication and breeding.

Jaberwok

I think that before banning racing, people need to consider the wider picture as to what this would realistically mean for these animals, and perhaps stop using emotive words like abhorrent and barbaric, which racing most certainly is not. Yes There is always room for improvement and this is constantly being under discussion. We have (only one now) and have had Exmoor ponies for the past 25 years, and although not remotely like a racehorse (!) they can be tricky and slightly unpredictable, creatures of habit given to flight if upset. I suspect a lot of protesters actually don't know the first thing about horses!

There are Exmoor ponies on the dunes near us. A local lady shows them. What I didn’t realise was that they have a prehensile (?)mouth which means that they can eat round plants leaving certain parts of it, and choose which plants to eat at certain times of year which helps the environment.And unlike cattle what they eat gets passed out and seeds etc are spread over wide areas. I don’t know if the article I read meant that all horses have prehensile mouths or whether it’s just native ponies. I think Exmoor ponies are beautiful.

Jaberwok

In the right hands ex racehorses do make good riding hoses, but they do need retraining to get to this point, which involves time and patience.

We have had ex military horses on our yard, they also needed love and patience like ex racers.

In the right hands ex racehorses do make good riding hoses, but they do need retraining to get to this point, which involves time and patience.