Apparently it is our fault that the economy is such rubbish because we can’t add up

I didn’t understand maths until I had to teach it!! Then it made more sense!
I am anti Tory by the way 🤣

GrannyGravy13

There seems to be a badge of pride to be rubbish at maths.

I welcome any initiative to increase the numeracy of the nation.

From what I heard on Breakfast News, The PM hasn’t blamed the Country’s woes on the standard of numeracy, he did say that improving numeracy could only be beneficial, totally different.

The sneering I heard on various radio stations was so childish. Presenters and commentators were falling over themselves to say how rubbish they were at maths and how much they hated the subject. If this is what children are hearing from their parents too no wonder they disengage from the subject at a young age. Children need encouragement. Maths are useful all through life, from working out your taxes to dressmaking etc etc Knowledge is no load to carry whatever the subject.

The teacher we had who taught the 'new maths' back in the 60s really didn't fully understand it herself. The result was that many of us did the certificate of proficiency in arithmetic instead of O level maths. That was pretty useful and helps with everyday finances etc. We had to rote learn our multiplication tables by age 9. They're still stuck firmly in my head.

Annie1 😉

Red letter moment for me. I agree with Volver. Because she is correct. Without maths we could not function. It is a matter of envy for me. I just wish I worked harder to understand maths and that I had experienced being taught by decent and lit up teachers.

volver3

Maths describes how the universe works.

Economics is a made up thing that people use to try to justify any and all kinds of decisions about how they run the country.

Maybe I'm just biased

You used to have to be good at maths to cast a horoscope. That didn't make horoscopes reliable though.

I've been told you have to be good at probability to be a good gambler too.

Callistemon21

growstuff

What kind of maths is Sunak talking about? As far as I know, he hasn't given any details.

Obviously the kind the Government is no good at.
(Was that grammatical 🤔)

Although you don't need to be brilliant at Maths to study Economics.

Oh! I think the government is very good at maths - that's how it manages to hoodwink the people who really don't understand the stats.

Maths describes how the universe works.

Economics is a made up thing that people use to try to justify any and all kinds of decisions about how they run the country.

Maybe I'm just biased

You used to have to be good at maths to cast a horoscope. That didn't make horoscopes reliable though.

missdeke

Any compulsory maths after GCSE level should be practical maths, how to run your own finances, mortgages etc. Leaving students to specialise in their own choices for A levels and above. No amount of compulsory maths would have ever improved my basic skills, I never got the hang of calculus, trigonometry etc no matter how much it was explained to me. But I would most certainly have appreciated learning the ins and outs of personal finances.

If I were on the working party, that's exactly what I would recommend. I bet Sunak can't do higher level calculus or trigonometry either.

However, I'd go further than understanding personal finances. I would want to teach the maths needed for everyday number literacy. It's hardly possible to pick up any newspaper (or read it online) without coming across some form of statistics.

Callistemon21

growstuff

What kind of maths is Sunak talking about? As far as I know, he hasn't given any details.

Obviously the kind the Government is no good at.
(Was that grammatical 🤔)

Although you don't need to be brilliant at Maths to study Economics.

It depends! Economics at degree level can be studied as a BA or BSc. A BSc does require a high level in maths - not that Sunak has one.

Any compulsory maths after GCSE level should be practical maths, how to run your own finances, mortgages etc. Leaving students to specialise in their own choices for A levels and above. No amount of compulsory maths would have ever improved my basic skills, I never got the hang of calculus, trigonometry etc no matter how much it was explained to me. But I would most certainly have appreciated learning the ins and outs of personal finances.

nanna8

My mum had dyscalculia. She couldn’t add up at all, couldn’t work out change and at school failed every single maths test from the start. She was extremely good with words , history, geography, art etc. We used to laugh at how bad she was at maths ( I have never,ever come across anyone that bad all my life ) and didn’t know it was actually something diagnosable.

I have also come across pupils with genuine dyscalculia - maybe half a dozen in a long teaching career. A friend's husband has it; he can't read a railway timetable and work out how long a journey will take.

However, I do not believe that weaknesses in maths are often caused by dyscalculia. Something goes wrong with teaching/learning or the relationship with the teacher and pupils do what they always do, which is to blame something, in this case some innate lack of ability in maths. It's supported by what Sunak calls an "anti-maths mindset". It's almost cool not to be to good at maths because it's only something for the nerdy geeks anyway.

growstuff

What kind of maths is Sunak talking about? As far as I know, he hasn't given any details.

Obviously the kind the Government is no good at.
(Was that grammatical 🤔)

Although you don't need to be brilliant at Maths to study Economics.

It is depressing to read so many anti maths posts but it is anti Tory really and as one of the despised party members, that although I too was poor at Maths I always know who will pick out a news item that so many Grans will nod their heads to, WhiteWaterMark 2 always wins the medal.
In South Australia where I did my school exams, I could cope well with arithmetic and like all people of advanced years my times tables were taught like a religious chorus and were drilled daily. I still know them off by heart as many of us do. However, algebra and geometry were just a mystery to me, so as you were not allowed into uni without maths I had to get an exemption by my teachers supporting my application. Even doing my higher degree at LSE I had to get a tutor to get past the more advanced statistic. I was offered a job at the LSE actually teaching stats to undergrads but I turned it down out of shame and fear that I would let myself down! So Rishi is right but we need inspiring people oriented teachers who can inspire students with a love for maths that so many of us lack.

Yes, Rishi we get your love of maths but we have very few good maths teachers and we need to recruit more and as kids are bored and feel they do not get it, we have to inspire students. Not an easy problem to solve and while all of us who were teachers were great at the job, just as in every walk of life there are teachers who should never have pursued such a demanding job either because they were as idle as the day is long or just could not handle the art of gripping the students attention in the classroom.
I understand your frustration with Rishi’s statement but we do need to push maths to the centre of learning. I do regret my own imablity to grasp the subject

OK, at the risk of offending people.

Not everybody who is bad at counting has dyscalculia.

Just like how not everyone who has problems with reading is dyslexic. And not everybody who lets their attention wander has ADHD. And not everyone who likes order in their lives is autistic.

My mum had dyscalculia. She couldn’t add up at all, couldn’t work out change and at school failed every single maths test from the start. She was extremely good with words , history, geography, art etc. We used to laugh at how bad she was at maths ( I have never,ever come across anyone that bad all my life ) and didn’t know it was actually something diagnosable.

growstuff

Coco51

Strictly speaking the majority of people only need arithmetic.
➕➖➗✖️* % * Fractions illustrated by pies (division according to number of people wanting a piece!)

I disagree. They also need skills in interpreting statistics.

And reading graphs. I wish people could learn to read graphs.

montymops

I agree Grandma70s - I was able to the same as you! I learned my tables well and understood fractions, decimals, angles, geometry and some basic algebra but at 14 when we started doing logarithms and more complicated things, I was simply not interested- I found it all tedious and boring. Whereas literature and languages were magic to me. Five of us went to the Head and asked to give up Maths and do Greek instead. We had cleared it with the Classics teacher beforehand. She agreed and we were so grateful. At A level I did Latin French and German - all languages have been intensely interesting to me all my life. The 5 of us all did reasonably well - 2 became Heads of schools, 2 became doctors and one became a Fellow at Girton College Cambridge . None of us had Maths O Level. It was possible to do this before the National Curriculum and for the 5 of us, was a most sensible decision. Who is really going to work hard at something they have absolutely no interest in?

Many people work everyday at jobs in which they have absolutely no interest. Maybe it should be seen as a life skill.

Coco51

Strictly speaking the majority of people only need arithmetic.
➕➖➗✖️* % * Fractions illustrated by pies (division according to number of people wanting a piece!)

I disagree. They also need skills in interpreting statistics.

What kind of maths is Sunak talking about? As far as I know, he hasn't given any details.

This is Sunak's second attempt at throwing this dead cat on the table. All pupils should have a good level of literacy and numeracy when they leave school - they need at least to be able to work out how long it will take them to pay back their student loans. The kind of maths Sunak is talking about is very different and not for everyone. For this, he needs to recruit the highest quality maths teachers. Perhaps he should apply his mathematical brain to working out how he will fund these teachers.

I did achieve GCE Maths but although I got a degree and a PGCE, I never studied Maths again: it seemed too theoretical and unconnected to daily life. However in my 40s, in order to run the financial aspects of my husband's business, I went to college and learned bookkeeping and payroll. I also learned that it was not shameful to use a calculator!
I can't see how an apparent lack of maths ability has ruined the economy and I wonder what exactly he thinks that 16-18 year olds should learn. For many of us, a good grounding in basic addition, subtraction, division and multiplication is sufficient.

Strictly speaking the majority of people only need arithmetic.
➕➖➗✖️* % * Fractions illustrated by pies (division according to number of people wanting a piece!)

Maths was my favourite subject....

I agree Grandma70s - I was able to the same as you! I learned my tables well and understood fractions, decimals, angles, geometry and some basic algebra but at 14 when we started doing logarithms and more complicated things, I was simply not interested- I found it all tedious and boring. Whereas literature and languages were magic to me. Five of us went to the Head and asked to give up Maths and do Greek instead. We had cleared it with the Classics teacher beforehand. She agreed and we were so grateful. At A level I did Latin French and German - all languages have been intensely interesting to me all my life. The 5 of us all did reasonably well - 2 became Heads of schools, 2 became doctors and one became a Fellow at Girton College Cambridge . None of us had Maths O Level. It was possible to do this before the National Curriculum and for the 5 of us, was a most sensible decision. Who is really going to work hard at something they have absolutely no interest in?