Apparently it is our fault that the economy is such rubbish because we can’t add up

ElderBerry4

growstuff

I agree with volver. There is such a thing as dyscalculia, but it's relatively rare and has little to do with the joking about being bad at maths.

Around 1 in 10 has dyslexia.
At least 1 in 20 has dyscalculia.
The latter figure may be far higher because by comparison dyscalculia is usually under-reported, under-researched, and goes underdiagnosed.

Do you have evidence for that claim, please?

Cabbie21 I agree that this will almost certainly never happen, unless the idea is to deliver lessons online via apps (which wouldn't surprise me).

Nevertheless, I don't agree with some of your post. All young people currently have to stay in some form of education/training until 18. They're not following the same courses and there's no reason why they would all need to follow the same maths course. Some would do A level, while others could do statistics and others could do practical courses related to apprenticeships. Almost everybody needs some level of maths to function in today's society.

The argument about some young people being "academic" is a red herring. They needn't be forced to understand calculus, but the kind of maths which people use in a practical way. For example, builders use maths to calculate how much building material they need, anybody running a small business needs to be able to do basic accounting, people in general need to be able to understand concepts such as percentage and average to have any understanding of current affairs.

It, where It = all pupils continuing to have maths lessons to 18, is never going to happen.
There aren’t enough maths teachers already, without this extra burden.
What would the curriculum be? How many different groups would be needed to teach to an appropriate level?
The ability will range from those capable of doing Maths A level but who chose not to, through those who scraped GCSE and couldn’t wait to drop the subject, to those who failed GCSE and those whose ability would never attain to doing any formal exams.
Decisions about the curriculum are best left to teachers, not imposed by politicians.
Most of my maths skills were learnt in primary school. I passed maths O level at the age of 14 but I have no maths skills beyond a basic numeracy, mental arithmetic and just about enough awareness to use a calculator. Numbers “ do my head in”, my eyes glaze over. But I have had a good career in my own field ( modern languages).
Understanding of money and finances, including the consequences of debt would be useful in schools. Interpreting graphs and other statistical information would be useful.

Many children would do better to leave school and get into work with relevant training rather than be forced to stay on in the classroom. Academic learning is not for everyone.

Sunaks’s proposal shows an over- simplification of the problem and an unrealistic and unworkable solution.

growstuff

I agree with volver. There is such a thing as dyscalculia, but it's relatively rare and has little to do with the joking about being bad at maths.

Around 1 in 10 has dyslexia.
At least 1 in 20 has dyscalculia.
The latter figure may be far higher because by comparison dyscalculia is usually under-reported, under-researched, and goes underdiagnosed.

Good luck with that PM. It’s impossible to get maths teachers (in fact any teachers and it’s getting worse and worse) now. Not a hope that there will be teachers available for this.

I'm doubtful that making Maths a compulsory subject until age 18 is going to have any effect on our economy. I think what we should do is to remove a lot of stress on pupils and teachers by stopping external tests. Also, please get rid of league tables. They serve no purpose.

Yes absolutely - I went on to say

*Silly me. So our lack of growth, and price stability has nothing to do with it -

And certainly nothing at all to do with the Tory’s rubbish policies*

Having a maths degree means nothing unless you have access to government economic policies, and even then if you have no understanding of economics your maths won’t get you very far.

It doesn't matter, though
To clarify - It doesn't matter whether or not we have an A* 'A' level in Maths or failed dismally.

Charge of the economy is the Government's job.

Mollygo

As an aside, there are also those who will readily admit to having had difficulty with the sciences, languages, art, music, PE etc.
Doesn’t seem to result in the same raft of scathing comments though.

And there I was thinking that a healthy economy was all about the supply and demand of beans, not our ability to be able to count them

It doesn't matter, though.

I think most of us know how many beans make five
We elect people, hoping they know what to do with the beans.

makes make

Mollygo

As an aside, there are also those who will readily admit to having had difficulty with the sciences, languages, art, music, PE etc.
Doesn’t seem to result in the same raft of scathing comments though.

Indeed.

I've wonderful math skills and can hardly write a coherent sentence, as evidenced here. Grammar and spelling, no matter how often drilled, makes no sense to me

As an aside, there are also those who will readily admit to having had difficulty with the sciences, languages, art, music, PE etc.
Doesn’t seem to result in the same raft of scathing comments though.

Until someone is able to get inside the brain of those who struggle with math, we won't know where the difficulties lie.

The day of planting a wireless chip in the brain might not be far away, the infrastructure is already in place.

growstuff

Callistemon21

The question is, though, what is the connection between the UK population's apparent maths inability and the state of the British economy?

I can't follow the logic.
What am I missing?

You're not missing anything. They're two separate issues. Sunak is trying to detract and blame people.

Sorry, it was a rhetorical question. 🙂

growstuff

Callistemon21

The question is, though, what is the connection between the UK population's apparent maths inability and the state of the British economy?

I can't follow the logic.
What am I missing?

You're not missing anything. They're two separate issues. Sunak is trying to detract and blame people.

As I said in my other post - deflection.

Most of us can add 2+2 and realise it doesn't make 5.

I agree with volver. There is such a thing as dyscalculia, but it's relatively rare and has little to do with the joking about being bad at maths.

Callistemon21

The question is, though, what is the connection between the UK population's apparent maths inability and the state of the British economy?

I can't follow the logic.
What am I missing?

You're not missing anything. They're two separate issues. Sunak is trying to detract and blame people.

The question is, though, what is the connection between the UK population's apparent maths inability and the state of the British economy?

I can't follow the logic.
What am I missing?

I'm sure there is such a thing as dyscalculia.

Just as I'm sure that many (most?) of the posters on here boasting how bad they are at maths don't suffer from it.

Apparently it is our fault that the economy is such rubbish because we can’t add up

I think even those who are inept at maths can put two and two together and understand deflection when we see it.

volver3

Disclaimer first - I haven't read every post on this thread.

Now, would any of you like to say how your brain just doesn't take in how to read? How it's not something you can learn, and how you've done fine without it?

No, didn't think so.

🤣🤣🤣
Obviously not on here V3, or they wouldn’t be posting. but do you believe everyone can read?
Do you believe that there is no such thing as dyscalculia?

When I paid for my shopping by card the other day it suddenly occurred to me that all the money handling skills we used to have will soon be almost lost because so few people use money now

Casdon, I'd like to see them try to drag me back to work (kicking and screaming)!

Callistemon21

Mollygo

Grantanow, to be fair, there have always been adults who can’t do simple maths-even more on the basis of “if you don’t use it, you lose it”.

People don't even need to check their change any more, just show the card to the EPOS. Mostly we dont even have to remember a pin number either.

DD1 when she was 18 was staying with my MIL and they went to the local Budgens. Chatting as they shopped and put stuff in the trolley. They arrived at the till, and as they wree queuing, she got her purse out and counted the money, notes and change, and put it on the counter before the shopping. 'what's this' said the cashier. MIL replied 'the money for the shopping' - 'but how do you know how much it will be, I've not put it through the till? said cashier. MIL smiled and replied 'I've got a head, you know'. And spot on, to the penny. She was in her 80s.

Hetty58

Low numeracy skills (and literacy, too) are nothing new - so I spot a non-story - again, a smokescreen perhaps?

I find it quite hilarious, though, that Gransnetters think it applies to them, personally. The numeracy skills of pensioners are hardly a concern for the government!

Unless they are former maths teachers, regardless of their age now, in which case the government wants them back in the classroom, pronto.