Diane Abbott suspended from the Labour Party

Clearly her constituents don’t believe that she ‘should never have been allowed to be an MP’
because she is one of few who have won elections for decades.

NanaDana

There appears to be a suggestion that there is some sort of league table for racism, with groups who are most readily identifiable, for example by the colour of their skin, very much in "the premier league". I don't subscribe to this view. Clearly, Diane Abbott (and others) do. The fact that some "do not suffer racism, today, in the UK, on a daily basis" in no way diminishes the experience of those who may not be so immediately identifiable as a target, but are nevertheless subjected to racial hatred as and when their identity is revealed. This is not a competition. All racism is equally abhorrent, and the end result is equally painful for all who are exposed to it. Abbott clearly doesn't "get" that..

It comes from America and critical race theory.

It seems to me that the people who are criticising Diane Abbott are just as bad as she has been in this letter to the Observer.

Freya5

Not before time. The woman is a car crash everytime she opens her mouth. Several incidents over the years have led me to believe she is a woman who should never have been allowed to be an MP.

How do you "not allow" somebody to be an MP?

You might disagree with her, but she has just as much right as anybody else to be an MP.

Surely you are not implying this only happens in the UK, Fleurpepper ?
Other European countries can leave us standing in this area especially regarding police behaviour.
And don’t get me started on the US.

Not before time. The woman is a car crash everytime she opens her mouth. Several incidents over the years have led me to believe she is a woman who should never have been allowed to be an MP.

No NanaDana- there is no league table. Some groups and individuals are not easily identified, and therefore do not suffer day in, day out, discrimination, prejudice or racism.

Perhaps have a look at police stop and search stats, for instance. To try and pretend that some groups, still today, in the UK- do not experience disproportionate targetting, prejudice and full on racism, is as nonsensical as DA's letter.

I don’t believe the letter was sent in error, she is still an MP, what has she lost ? What has she gained ? Causing trouble for
Starmer. I

There appears to be a suggestion that there is some sort of league table for racism, with groups who are most readily identifiable, for example by the colour of their skin, very much in "the premier league". I don't subscribe to this view. Clearly, Diane Abbott (and others) do. The fact that some "do not suffer racism, today, in the UK, on a daily basis" in no way diminishes the experience of those who may not be so immediately identifiable as a target, but are nevertheless subjected to racial hatred as and when their identity is revealed. This is not a competition. All racism is equally abhorrent, and the end result is equally painful for all who are exposed to it. Abbott clearly doesn't "get" that..

I actually always wanted to be red head. I was as a small child, but it soon turned dark and I was so envious of a girl at school with hair that was, quite literally copper coloured. In fact quite a lot of us envied this girl her womderful hair.

Yes black people are easier to pick out and discriminate but that does not make them the only people to be discriminated against. Which what she is saying. If you are treating someone differently or excluding someone because of their race, gender or colour then that is discrimination does not matter how insignificant you think that thing is to them it may be important and will hurt.

She has a track record for this kind of thing. Claiming the letter was sone kind of draft, sent in error is ludicrous

Her apology stating that it is undeniable that Jews, Travellers .....can experience racism just makes her look ridiculous really. If she thinks that, why did she say the opposite in the first place!!

I think her background is irrelevant. I also think the fact that she has experienced appalling racism is irrelevant in this context as it is her views expressed that are the point. She is a conscientious MP...so does that make this debacle somehow honorable?

What a mess!

Agreed growstuff. Never been a fan, I must say. Her comment about red heads was just nonsense, and there was no need to bring in slavery into this.

But she is right in the main. Jewish people in the UK, currently, do not suffer daily discrimination in the street, stop ans search, in employment, when wanting a loan or rent a flat, etc, etc, etc.

They cannot change the colour of their skin - it is there, and always will be. Jewish people are not visible, as such, unless they live in Haredi communities and choose to look and live so very differently from the rest of the population. They shouldnt have to suffer for that choice- although I am not happy at all about all the illegal schools and the arranged marriages, etc. As said, it is a choice for them. Most Jews are not identitifed or identifiable- and therefore do not suffer racism, today, in the UK, on a daily basis. That is absolutely correct.

Whilst I appreciate you're the OP, the core issue was about what Abbott wrote in the Observer, not her "foot and mouth disease". That's what has been discussed.

I think her background is relevant. She was a trailblazer and she has been the victim of appalling racism, which makes her behaviour more bizarre.

Personally, I think she has had her day, but I understand she is still a conscientious constituency MP, which is more than can be said for some. Starmer can't just get rid of her. The Labour whip has been suspended, but he can't just get rid of a sitting MP and there's nothing to stop her standing as an independent in the next election.

Interesting how this discussion has strayed so far from the core issue of Diane Abbott's recurring foot in mouth disease. This latest abhorrent utterance could be terminal in terms of her continued political life. The fact that she is "the first black woman MP" is totally irrelevant in this situation, other than perhaps to emphasise just how bizarre her attitude is in terms of who can be exposed to racism. I do hope that Starmer can bite the bullet and get rid of this total liability.

Jackiest

Discrimination is not about who suffers discrimination worse. Any discrimination is wrong no matter which direction it is in. Black against white, women against men, Jews against Germans it is still wrong.

I agree.

growstuff

nanna8

A bit left field but what struck me was ‘redheads’. Is there some sort of prejudice against redheads over there or what ? I haven’t come across that here at all, redheads are considered to be slightly exotic and to be admired. Vikings, Scots and Irish descendants.

Both my sister and daughter have red hair and both have suffered serious "teasing" as a result. Nevertheless, it's not on par with racism.

I think that is truly awful. Hope it doesn’t come over here, we have enough stuff of similar ilk .

nanna8

A bit left field but what struck me was ‘redheads’. Is there some sort of prejudice against redheads over there or what ? I haven’t come across that here at all, redheads are considered to be slightly exotic and to be admired. Vikings, Scots and Irish descendants.

Both my sister and daughter have red hair and both have suffered serious "teasing" as a result. Nevertheless, it's not on par with racism.

Well sort of, nanna "gingers" have been the but of jokes and sometimes mocking even bullying in schools.

I had to look up origins, interesting, complex.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_people_with_red_hair

A bit left field but what struck me was ‘redheads’. Is there some sort of prejudice against redheads over there or what ? I haven’t come across that here at all, redheads are considered to be slightly exotic and to be admired. Vikings, Scots and Irish descendants.

Or wasn’t she thinking?
I don't think she was thinking on this serious issue so it is right she has had the Whip suspended.

Whitewavemark2

Thank you OP for this as I feel that I can now have a look at this without the undertones of racism evident previously.

Quite frankly, what on earth was she thinking! Or wasn’t she thinking?
Unfortunately her letter of apology seems to make matters worse. She uses the tactic of the far right by saying something, then saying you didn’t mean it.

Starmer acted swiftly and correctly.

However I distance myself entirely from the inevitable racism accompanying the criticism of her letter on social media.

Agree.

There isn't a coming back from this. Racism may affect different groups differently, but to introduce some kind of "hierarchy" or implied one - out of order.

The Windrush boat came to England in 1948. That was not a scandal, they were happy to come and there was work for them and housing. The scandal which was the hostile environment policy came to light in 2018 was created in 2012 sothe scandal started then.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal

Anniebach

Comparing Jews with ginger headed people has sod all to do with Palastine.

It was said today she was writing her autobiography so perhaps would be standing down before the next election.

Was this letter deliberately meant ! ! ! !

She's certainly scored an own goal if it was.
Although I suppose adverse publicity is better than no publicity at all.