Diane Abbott suspended from the Labour Party

Iam64

I’m relieved the LP acted swiftly. Despite what Grany and Gloryannie always claim in these discussions, anti semitism was rife in the Corbyn era]. You quote your Jewish friends, I refer to mine. Holocaust survivors here in north Manchester keeping a suitcase/go bag by the door in case Corbyn the anti semite, they believed, got into number 10. To a person these were Labour voters until they werent

I agree with you. I know somebody who was a very active member of the Manchester Labour Party before Corbyn became leader. She canvassed regularly, but gave up her membership after listening to what people on the ground were saying. My son also came across Labour anti-semiticism at meetings in another part of the country.

I used to think it couldn't be true, but I changed my mind.

Sparklefizz

^I think Ms Abbott would benefit from History lessons.^

... and Maths !

👏👏👏

Fleurpepper

Rees-Mogg made outrageous comments about the reality of the British concentration camps in South Africa- can't remember any of the above posters complaining about it.

The Windrush scandal started in 1948! It was a scandal how those people were badly treated, abused and exploited, right from the start.

Indeed! If he were a member of a political party with any moral compass, he would have been at the very least reprimanded for them. Hopefully, the Labour Party will never stoop that low.

Yes Iam anti semitism was rife during the Corbyn years, 100
apologies does change the fact of Abbott’s view on anti semitism,

Rees-Mogg made outrageous comments about the reality of the British concentration camps in South Africa- can't remember any of the above posters complaining about it.

The Windrush scandal started in 1948! It was a scandal how those people were badly treated, abused and exploited, right from the start.

GagaJo: I never mentioned windrush I only mentioned the slave trade and the second world war. The windrush scandal did not start till 2018.

I’m relieved the LP acted swiftly. Despite what Grany and Gloryannie always claim in these discussions, anti semitism was rife in the Corbyn era]. You quote your Jewish friends, I refer to mine. Holocaust survivors here in north Manchester keeping a suitcase/go bag by the door in case Corbyn the anti semite, they believed, got into number 10. To a person these were Labour voters until they werent

Well yes, we all know that cruel, murderous discrimination has often not been about colour, or race. Like the British concentration camps where the Boers were kept and died of starvation of disease way before the German camps. And the way Israelis are now treating Palestinians.

gagajo Diane definition of those subject to racism was far narrower than just people of a different skin colour, she specifically limited it to only applying to those who had been manacled in slave ships. Thus she excludes anyone of non-west African descent, whether African, Asian or from anywhere else, even if their skin is different colour

Gagajo I don’t doubt that people are racist about Diane Abbott, in fact I know that she has received vile abuse on Twitter from vile people (I don’t do Twitter so have only read/heard about this) and I am ashamed that human beings can behave in such a vile manner. However, DA is not beyond criticism (are any of us?) and it is simply not good enough to assert that any criticism of her is purely due to racism. It just maybe that she’s said or done something offensive to others herself.

growstuff

GagaJo

Jackiest

Both the slave trade and the second world war were a long time ago. Now is not the time, if there ever was to start arguing my ancestors suffering was worse than yours. It is also far to long ago for vengeance. Now is the time to learn from the mistakes and set up systems so they can never happen again and then move on to a better world.

Tell that to the Windrush people who are still trying to fight discrimination and possible deportation. It isn't over.

One form of racism does not preclude others.

It's not a league table of who's suffered most abuse.

I appreciate that. My point is that it isn't totally in the past. For some, it is part of their present.

I'm in no way pitting one group against another.

The problem with "an apology" in this context is that she presumably does believe exactly what she stated so what exactly is she apologising for. I can't imagine any explanation she could give for these views that would cut it really, even if she defined racism and defined prejudice and the differences as SHE sees them

GagaJo

Jackiest

Both the slave trade and the second world war were a long time ago. Now is not the time, if there ever was to start arguing my ancestors suffering was worse than yours. It is also far to long ago for vengeance. Now is the time to learn from the mistakes and set up systems so they can never happen again and then move on to a better world.

Tell that to the Windrush people who are still trying to fight discrimination and possible deportation. It isn't over.

One form of racism does not preclude others.

It's not a league table of who's suffered most abuse.

Results of the 1938 election and referendum (about the annexation of Austria)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_German_parliamentary_election_and_referendum

Jackiest

Both the slave trade and the second world war were a long time ago. Now is not the time, if there ever was to start arguing my ancestors suffering was worse than yours. It is also far to long ago for vengeance. Now is the time to learn from the mistakes and set up systems so they can never happen again and then move on to a better world.

I'm not so sure that we should be forgetting about history. We're still living with the after-effects.

However, I agree that it's more important that we learn from the past. Bearing in mind the rhetoric from our Home Secretary, I don't think we have. I would rather Abbott had joined the voices condemning the rhetoric, whether it's against "boat people" or "picaninnies with melon smiles".

Jackiest

Both the slave trade and the second world war were a long time ago. Now is not the time, if there ever was to start arguing my ancestors suffering was worse than yours. It is also far to long ago for vengeance. Now is the time to learn from the mistakes and set up systems so they can never happen again and then move on to a better world.

Tell that to the Windrush people who are still trying to fight discrimination and possible deportation. It isn't over.

GagaJo

maddyone

Sorry Gagajo you’re just wrong. People call out Diane Abbott based on what she says, not because everyone else is a racist.

She was once reviled for drinking a canned G&T on a train. It was all over the papers. They even photoshopped odd shoes onto her to imply she was tipsy.

And for muddling up her numbers on radio when she was suffering from undiagnosed diabetes.

So sorry. But I totally disagree. If you compare her to the tripe BJ spouts, she's minor. It's based on racism. If she was a white man, she'd be totally under the radar.

I disagree. That's whataboutery.

I have a lot of respect for what Diane Abbott has achieved in her life. I agree she's been unfairly targeted and has been the victim of vile racist abuse, but in this instance she was out of order. She's an intelligent woman, who knows how politics and public opinion work. She should have known better.

I'm sorry this has happened, but I'm afraid I think it's time for her to retire. She could probably do more good (and I do think she's a good woman) outside the political spotlight.

Both the slave trade and the second world war were a long time ago. Now is not the time, if there ever was to start arguing my ancestors suffering was worse than yours. It is also far to long ago for vengeance. Now is the time to learn from the mistakes and set up systems so they can never happen again and then move on to a better world.

Gagajo She was responding to an article which makes the case that racism is more nuanced than white versus black, so she should not have made that her starting point.

maddyone

Sorry Gagajo you’re just wrong. People call out Diane Abbott based on what she says, not because everyone else is a racist.

She was once reviled for drinking a canned G&T on a train. It was all over the papers. They even photoshopped odd shoes onto her to imply she was tipsy.

And for muddling up her numbers on radio when she was suffering from undiagnosed diabetes.

So sorry. But I totally disagree. If you compare her to the tripe BJ spouts, she's minor. It's based on racism. If she was a white man, she'd be totally under the radar.

maddyone

There were many supporters of Hitler, but also many who did not support him. I’m not sure how we know how many supporters there were, or how many non supporters. At the end of the war pretty much everyone in Germany claimed to be a non supporter and that they had no idea what was happening to the disappearing Jews. Whilst I agree that there were many who were not supporters of Hitler, I’m afraid I tend to think the vast majority did support Hitler. I don’t think anyone, whatever is claimed, has any true figures of supporters/non supporters because people lied. They said they were supporters whilst Hitler was in power because it was safer to say so, and then said they were non supporters after the war because it was pertinent to do so.
The truth? No one knows.

Exactly! You wouldn't get many people in the UK to admit openly that they are racist, but it's blatantly obvious that a proportion are.

She was responding to this article, which was about the 2021 Evidence for Equality National Survey:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/15/racism-in-britain-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue-it-is-far-more-complicated

It's quite clear that black Caribbean people report that they suffer less racism than Gypsy/Traveller, Jewish, mixed race and Roma people. Black Africans report less racism than black Caribbeans.

It's obvious that racism in the UK exists! Quite why Abbott felt the need to "prove" that one sort of racism is less serious than another is beyond me. It's racism - no ifs and buts - and needs to be addressed.

Sorry Gagajo you’re just wrong. People call out Diane Abbott based on what she says, not because everyone else is a racist.

There were many supporters of Hitler, but also many who did not support him. I’m not sure how we know how many supporters there were, or how many non supporters. At the end of the war pretty much everyone in Germany claimed to be a non supporter and that they had no idea what was happening to the disappearing Jews. Whilst I agree that there were many who were not supporters of Hitler, I’m afraid I tend to think the vast majority did support Hitler. I don’t think anyone, whatever is claimed, has any true figures of supporters/non supporters because people lied. They said they were supporters whilst Hitler was in power because it was safer to say so, and then said they were non supporters after the war because it was pertinent to do so.
The truth? No one knows.

Grantanow

Totally unacceptable given the experience of Jews throughout history. The Left can't get it into their heads. 'For the many, not the Jew' said it all.

Rubbish. Propaganda pushed by the right wing media and its supporters.

The Left supports all ethnicities and religions.