I fear the rise of National Conservatism

GSM, I mentioned Brexit in relation to this discussion, as I saw an awful lot of union flags on the website; my question was

In a non goady manner, I would love to hear the opinions of those on here who supported Brexit, are to the right of politics in their views, and who watch GB news; what do you think of this movement?

I have not, as yet, read any replies

As you know, I’m a Conservative I am always deeply puzzled by this sort of comment. How can anyone "be a Conservative"?

The Conservative party, like all other parties, consists of those who belong to it at a moment in time and the policies they promulgate - these change - the people and the policies. I do not understand how anyone can "be" anything when it comes to political parties as they are not a static entity - they change all the time.

I find it best to weigh up what each has to offer when an election comes around.

We don’t actually know what this is? When we find out, then that’s the time to throw a wobbly garnet 25.
I have a horrible feeling that this is a load of confused intellectuals …..

DaisyAnne Thank you so much for posting the Andrew Marr link. I am incredibly upset and angry that this is happening. My Mother who had to flee from Czechoslovakia thought that the UK was such a kind country that it could never happen here. I am glad she is not alive to see this.

The website gives a chilling insight into their policies, however they might dress them up to appear palatable and appeal to a UK audience at their conference.

But GMS the website seems to be primarily United States based. I want to hear what this Conference in the UK actually has to say before passing judgement. It’s the dilemma of democracy that we allow people to speak. Maybe one day we will all vote for a despotic state. That would be the true irony of democracy if we voted to have it taken away.

I read enough on their website to make up my mind 25Avalon.

I don’t fear them. I’ve read or tried to read all their gumph and it’s quite complicated, much more than it would appear on this thread. One of the articles on the link entitled “National Conservatism- a liberal response” by Alex Morton on 5th April said “Regardless of how you feel about National Conservatism and its goals, this is an impressive Conference that is at least trying to grapple with big ideas. In a world of dreary technocratic decline, even a national liberal such as myself welcomes the challenge and debate this will bring. After all, liberals have always welcomed the challenge of debate and free thinking ideas and I look forward to attending the conference in a few weeks.”

I think we should listen to what they have to say before we make up our minds.

Roger Scruton, among others, at the National Conservatism Conference in London May 13,2019 - YouTube video Renewing our communities by revitalising the nation state. 35 minutes.

Maybe a quick introduction into the theory/thought behind the organisation?

MaizieD

Germanshepherdsmum

Talking about the ERG and suggesting these people are Vote Leave in disguise isn’t referencing Brexit Fleurpepper? Really?

I think that their target audience is very much those who voted for Brexit. Their stated 'concerns' are similar to those which influenced some Leave voters...

So Brexit does have some relevance even though people might try to deny it.

I wouldn't dispute that the target audience is similar. However, their American origins are reflected by extreme social conservatism/"anti-wokery".

They're anti-abortion, anti-trans, pro-religion (Christian), pro-control of education (for their own ends), pro-family and children - amongst other things. I don't remember Brexiters being in favour of any of those policies.

Interestingly, they emphasise that they're inclusive and not racist. Presumably, they realise that their core supporters aren't all white.

Fleurpepper

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s not entirely clear to me who ‘this lot’ are. The names on the website are almost all unknown to me, though their agenda is clear enough. I don’t wish publicity on them but I hope we hear more after the conference - particularly about the parts played by JRM and Braverman. It’s a matter of concern that in the 21st century such a movement can be formed under an apparent cloak of secrecy.

The ERG was too- recently, a lot of questions have been asked about who they are, and what they stand for, how can it be that we tax payers pay for their Group's funding- and for the power they hold on Government to be curbed. So I do believe it is them in disguise, + others from Vote Leave.

Have we had another referendum involving Leave or Remain Fleurpepper ?
I must have missed that

And I have not mentionned the B word at all btw

Perhaps before you comment again. I assure you that it takes very little time to see who the founders are and what they’re about.

I said I would - but not just before going for bed- my sleep is more important!

They may well appeal to many who voted Leave. That is not the same as saying, as YOU did, Fp, that they are the ERG and Vote Leave in disguise. Read up on them.

Germanshepherdsmum

Talking about the ERG and suggesting these people are Vote Leave in disguise isn’t referencing Brexit Fleurpepper? Really?

Referencing is one thing - saying it another. YOU did- but as Maizie says, all the signs are there. If you can provide evidence to the contrary, I will be happy to listen.

Germanshepherdsmum

Talking about the ERG and suggesting these people are Vote Leave in disguise isn’t referencing Brexit Fleurpepper? Really?

I think that their target audience is very much those who voted for Brexit. Their stated 'concerns' are similar to those which influenced some Leave voters...

So Brexit does have some relevance even though people might try to deny it.

Talking about the ERG and suggesting these people are Vote Leave in disguise isn’t referencing Brexit Fleurpepper? Really?

Although I am quite sure that they are closely linked.

No I have not GSM- I will try and inform myself better. And I have not mentionned the B word at all btw.

I agree with you GSM. They're far more sinister and, I suspect, have bigger bucks behind them. There's been a worldwide trend towards the extreme right for some years. They're appealing to the disillusioned and, let's face it, there are plenty of disillusioned voters at the moment.

Have you looked at the NC’s website Fleurpepper? Looked at the names there? Looked at their beliefs? They are not the ERG, though some ERG members may have espoused their cause. These people are not simply Vote Leave in disguise. Their beliefs are far more sinister, much as you may wish to think that all paths lead to Brexit.

What I find interesting is how many people attacked Garry Lineker when he compared the language used to launch a new asylum policy with 1930s Germany and who are now worried about the rise of National Conservatism.

Some/many of us have been worried about the advance of the far right throughout the world for a very long time.

It will be interesting to see how the tabloid Press and other Tory papers will react to them.

The ERG are now the CRG (Covid Recovery Group although I could offer alternatives.)

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s not entirely clear to me who ‘this lot’ are. The names on the website are almost all unknown to me, though their agenda is clear enough. I don’t wish publicity on them but I hope we hear more after the conference - particularly about the parts played by JRM and Braverman. It’s a matter of concern that in the 21st century such a movement can be formed under an apparent cloak of secrecy.

The ERG was too- recently, a lot of questions have been asked about who they are, and what they stand for, how can it be that we tax payers pay for their Group's funding- and for the power they hold on Government to be curbed. So I do believe it is them in disguise, + others from Vote Leave.