I fear the rise of National Conservatism

Germanshepherdsmum

The Nazis might have been the National Socialist party but they were most certainly not left wing. Quite the opposite. Don’t be fooled by the word ‘Socialist’. Or by the word ‘Conservatism’.
There is very much a parallel between the growing unrest in the UK - and other countries - and that in 1930s Germany which brought the Nazis to power.

Some elements of Nazism would be considered socialist. For example, farmers to be owners of their land (not tenants), pensions to be raised, public industries (eg electricity and water) to be owned by the state.

It's misleading to think of politics as solely a left - right wing linear continuum.

choughdancer

chrissy08

I’m awake so don’t need to copy & paste. If you aren’t aware of who is pulling the strings please research Agenda 30.

My research took me here: www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-agenda-2030-idUSKBN2AN2CQ

Thanks for that. I'm afraid I couldn't even be bothered doing "research". It was so obviously bonkers.

“Yet a story in today's FT shows that the rich are on a massive spending spree with the profits of one of their favourite companies soaring... Oddly enough the rich have managed to come through these crises even richer than they were when they started..”

Yes indeed, the very rich will have some kind of business interests and have put prices up to customers, when supplies are restricted they can do that and so it goes on

chrissy08

I’m awake so don’t need to copy & paste. If you aren’t aware of who is pulling the strings please research Agenda 30.

My research took me here: www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-agenda-2030-idUSKBN2AN2CQ

The well to do middle classes are already cutting back, buying own brands instead of premium, a £7 bottle of wine instead of £10 either their mortgage is beginning to bite or their pension is not going as far as it was

ronib

MaizieD the energy crisis too has major consequences. Yes Chief Economist not Chairman. I was surprised that anyone would make this statement.

War in Ukraine = energy crisis, ronib.

Yet a story in today's FT shows that the rich are on a massive spending spree with the profits of one of their favourite companies soaring... Oddly enough the rich have managed to come through these crises even richer than they were when they started..

But that's really for another thread. Mustn't derail this one.

MaizieD the energy crisis too has major consequences. Yes Chief Economist not Chairman. I was surprised that anyone would make this statement.

ronib

When the chairman of the Bank of England suggests that we should get used to having less money, I wonder just how much less he envisages. Seems possible that the economy is going to worsen and it is likely that poverty will spread up to the middle classes. As seen by the recent strikes in the Nhs, previously held middle class incomes are under pressure too.

Not the Chairman, ronib, the Chief economist. Who has no idea, on £190,000 per year, how the other half lives and who is quite wrong about wage increases causing inflation. Just plain wrong. Current inflation was caused by supply side shocks (Brexit, pandemic and war in Ukraine) and by profiteering. Wage increases have had nothing to do with it. Raising interest rates and telling the less well off that they have to put up with being poor will just slow growth even further. And create an even angrier population. Many ready to take on board the NC message

The Nazis might have been the National Socialist party but they were most certainly not left wing. Quite the opposite. Don’t be fooled by the word ‘Socialist’. Or by the word ‘Conservatism’.
There is very much a parallel between the growing unrest in the UK - and other countries - and that in 1930s Germany which brought the Nazis to power.

When the chairman of the Bank of England suggests that we should get used to having less money, I wonder just how much less he envisages. Seems possible that the economy is going to worsen and it is likely that poverty will spread up to the middle classes. As seen by the recent strikes in the Nhs, previously held middle class incomes are under pressure too.

Oh, its conspiracy theory day today.

The Nazis were not left wing, whatever Hitchens says.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/peter-hitchens-is-wrong-the-nazis-weren-t-left-wing/ar-AA191Vfu

Does anyone responding to this post know that the Nazis, National Socialists, were an extreme left wing organisation? We should be wary of any extreme ideology.

There is no comparison to Germany in the 1930s, after the humiliation of WW1 the upper classes were vastly impoverished it only took a little Austrian corporal to ignite wholesale resentment of the way they were being treated.

Totally different in the UK today, it’s the older generation who own property control, the householders and business owners who want to see their hard work handed down to their family. Many of them (us) will say that the young, less fortunate should be helped more but in practice only help their own family.

National conservatism is the “haves” v “have nots” the problem is that a living wage is not a living wage, you cannot pay the rent and live, the only way to survive is with benefits and social housing and it shouldn’t be.

Whatever is said at the conference will be tailored to the audience. I doubt what is said will really reflect the most worrying beliefs of NC, in order to appear palatable to the multicultural UK voters.

MaizieD

^I would not be in the least surprised to see them similarly finding favour with people in this country who are struggling to make ends meet, face long NHS waiting lists, can’t find NHS dental treatment and blame much of their lot on the thousands arriving on boats.^

This really is just a continuation of the Brexit story and it is disingenuous to claim that it isn't. The people you describe, GSM were much more likely to vote to leave the EU because they believed that their vote would change their circumstances, struggling to survive after 6 years of tory austerity and kicking against a government which seemed uninterested in their difficulties.
Now we still have a discontented element, probably a far larger one than there was 7 years ago, and we have some of the same actors holding out the same promises of Nirvana as they did 7 years ago. We can see from some of the posts on this thread that they're not falling on deaf ears. The fact that this element in the UK has grown so big and is open to the NC ideas is what is really worrying me.

I'm not as confident as others are that this will only be attractive to a minority.

I’m in complete agreement with you Maizie. I have no doubt that that discontented element is far larger now - and disillusioned that Brexit didn’t deliver what they thought it would.

Anniel

I am not complacent at all. But I am not scared of this group. I regard the British people of having a lot of common sense. They see through the politicians and this is not 1930s Europe. I appreciate that Grans have differing political instincts but having learned about the upcoming meeting I think we will watch carefully what happens. I am sure you believe in Free Speech. I certainly do and have said I am a member of the Free Speech Union. So let third group talk and judge on the basis of what is said.

I don't think anyone has said they wouldn't find out what they could about what is said at this Conference of the National Conservative Party, Annie. How much we are allowed to know may/will depend on how much and how widely the Conservative Party client media report. Hopefully, it will be broadcast in full.

I wonder if those applauding Nationalistic Parties can tell us of one country where this has improved the lot of the majority. The people named in the broadcast have made it clear; they believe in the supremacy of the strongest.

The "strongest" in this case does not seem to include the more intelligent, scientifically or technically clever, etc, other than as worker bees. It probably does not include those not of accepted religions and beliefs. We have already seen the extremes of belief voiced by one of their number. I imagine it would exclude many who are not what I have seen termed as 'ethnically British', either. All these groups have been demonised, at times, by those leading Nationalist groups in the UK. I don't doubt odd exceptions will be made when it suits their aim for power. "Strongest" does seem to include those who can bully and overpower their way to the top.

It seems to be those with a severely overactive ego who see this as a good political view for the country, and particularly for themselves.

I would not be in the least surprised to see them similarly finding favour with people in this country who are struggling to make ends meet, face long NHS waiting lists, can’t find NHS dental treatment and blame much of their lot on the thousands arriving on boats.

This really is just a continuation of the Brexit story and it is disingenuous to claim that it isn't. The people you describe, GSM were much more likely to vote to leave the EU because they believed that their vote would change their circumstances, struggling to survive after 6 years of tory austerity and kicking against a government which seemed uninterested in their difficulties.
Now we still have a discontented element, probably a far larger one than there was 7 years ago, and we have some of the same actors holding out the same promises of Nirvana as they did 7 years ago. We can see from some of the posts on this thread that they're not falling on deaf ears. The fact that this element in the UK has grown so big and is open to the NC ideas is what is really worrying me.

I'm not as confident as others are that this will only be attractive to a minority.

I’m sorry to hear you have troubles at present Anniel and hope all is soon well again.

You say you’re surprised that I’m in agreement with the left-leaning posters as regards this organisation. I hope you’re not relying on the word ‘Conservatism’ in their title and the appearance of Braverman, Gove and JRM at their upcoming conference. They are far removed from the Conservative party which I support and of which you are a member. And from the Anglican Church of which I too am a member. Have you looked at their website and studied what is said there? Their beliefs are not those of traditional Tories or Christians such as you and I. They are the sort of beliefs which found favour in 1930s Germany, thereby bringing Hitler to power. I would not be in the least surprised to see them similarly finding favour with people in this country who are struggling to make ends meet, face long NHS waiting lists, can’t find NHS dental treatment and blame much of their lot on the thousands arriving on boats. These people are white supremacists with radical religious views which appeal to many in the US and who will dress up their propaganda as necessary to suit the multicultural UK audience. Don’t just rely on Marr’s podcast or whatever Iain Dale may say about it. Read for yourself what they have to say, as I have done - as a solicitor and historian I am always primarily interested in the original source matter rather than the way in which another person interprets it- consider, make up your own mind and I would be extremely surprised if you still think they are all about traditional British values.

Quite concerning. The classic ploy for Tory and Labour faced with nibbling from the extremes is to throw a few bones to their more extreme potential supporters. Braverman is Sunak's operative for this kind of thing.

Seense?

Sense, even.

I am sorry to hear that Annie1 has family problems.

But I don't think she talks a lot of seense, I think she is talking nonsense.

Anniel

Well it is now nearly 8 pm here anf i read every post. I have serious family problems i am dealing with today so have not read this thread and its assumptions. Personally Marrs podcast is full of assumptions and naturally is opinionated. I wrote to Iain Dale and asked him to take a look at the podcast. I alerted my Oxbridge son to read it for his intellectual opinion. I am an Anglican church member and do beileve in God. I am an original feminist who believes in womens rights. I may be a Conservative by party and by instinct but i do not find this group chilling but intend to follow what happens at their meeting. Happy Catholic Wife sums up traditional British values and i would think her views are those of a fair majority of British people regardless of which party you vote for. Rishi would not be offended as many Hindus also fit in with those values. I am surprised that GSM agrees with most of the left leaning posters here. I regard this hullabsloo as a storm in a teacup. And as those of you living in Scotland calling out Nationalism amuses me no end. I thought the SNP was a nationalist party. I voted Brexit ofcourse on grounds of Sovereinty. Our legsl system is very different to that of other member states and i could not agree to being bound by policies that were made by other EU states. The reason we have not succeeded is because of uncaring politicians like Boris who cared only for himself. I do think it is valuable to take an interest in what this group has to say. But to be so scared is to me a gross exaggeration. Calm down Sir Keir Starmer will be next PM and things can only get bettet. In Scotland we will wait and see. The treasurer did not know the Scottish Nationalist Party owned a £100,000 motor home.Dear me i am very interested in this turn of events which was recorded in every national newspaper! This is not sub judice! It is fact.

I think you talk a lot of sense Annie1 and I’m a left leaning supporter, we’re not all the same tho on here, just as all right leaning posters aren’t.Yeah, a storm in a teacup is how I’d put it. There’s extreme views in all political parties and they meet up and spout all sorts.On the left we unfortunately had Corbyn and Momentum but he’s gone and they’ve subsided under the waves.
Hope your family probs get sorted soon

I remember back in the early noughties, when Labour were in power, for a period I actually completely forgot that there was a Conservative Party at all.
The only time they were mentioned on the news was when they were trying to find a new leader which was quite often😀

A biography of Mogg's maternal grandfather:

househistree.com/people/thomas-richard-morris

Rees Mogg's family history:

selectsurnames.com/rees-mogg-jacob/

It's not unusual to have a misfit ancestor. I seem to remember even the Duchess of Cambridge has one.

The family has been gentry for some generations.