I fear the rise of National Conservatism

AmberSpyglass

If the contractor’s comment was innocent, he wouldn’t have been fired. If it was sexist, as I assume it was, they’re well rid of him.

aAmberSpyglass Well this particular department had great difficulty hanging on to its contractors - I don’t think for one minute that every contractor is sexist! Then again sexism is upto individual interpretation.

Also I remember the refrain - “it’s impossible to get anyone to do any work”. It’s in need of drastic change.

They have been in situ for some time but not prominent here mousemac. They are now endeavouring to get a higher profile here. They are not the Tory party. Voting for anyone is really not a good idea. That’s exactly how people like this lot get a foothold. A lot of people voted for Farage, though not enough to get him a seat - now he’s a supporter of this organisation, which would have done well in 1930s Germany.

If the contractor’s comment was innocent, he wouldn’t have been fired. If it was sexist, as I assume it was, they’re well rid of him.

ronib

Growstuff I don’t suppose anyone on this forum has worked for the Civil Service very recently but it has changed considerably. One particular department has a particularly woke attitude and sacked a contractor for making a fairly innocent comment about women. It’s a world unto itself. The idea that the wokist element in the Civil Service would take on board any of the declarations of New Conservatism is laughable.

Maybe not, but some of us do have family members and friends who still do work at SCS level.

Germanshepherdsmum

‘the new conservatives’ and ‘new conservatism’ are not the same thing. This organisation is National Conservatism - another thing altogether. The connotations of the word ‘National’ are particularly worrying

OK! Point taken, but if you delve a bit, they do have an almost identical agenda. New conservatism was behind Trump's "Make America Great Again". It's nationalistic because it rejects globalisation. In some ways that can work in the US because it's such a vast country with almost all the resources it needs within its own borders.

It piggy backs "nationalism" with all the nasty side and plays into the idea that being critical of one's own country/government is anti-patriotic. It rejects ideas of international co-operation and is strangely quiet about international trade.

It's fundamentally a culture battle against liberalism rather than a blueprint for successful economics, which ultimately control people's lives.

Thank you volver.

Growstuff I don’t suppose anyone on this forum has worked for the Civil Service very recently but it has changed considerably. One particular department has a particularly woke attitude and sacked a contractor for making a fairly innocent comment about women. It’s a world unto itself. The idea that the wokist element in the Civil Service would take on board any of the declarations of New Conservatism is laughable.

I think it's a bit late to be fearing them; they've been in situ for quite some time.
And unless enough people realise the gravity of our situation and vote for anyone who can unseat a Tory when they get the chance, there might never be another chance.

Good post GSM.

This thread does smear Conservatism. I am a Conservative voter (but not a party member). I find the rise of this organisation, and its apparent endeavours to align itself with our Conservative party, far more chilling than what one ill-informed woman has written about Jewish people. I suggest you look at the NC website and familiarise yourself with their beliefs. You will then see that this is far from a scare story. The socialists here are equally horrified at what these people stand for.
Btw journalists reporting on matters within the SNP at present know exactly what boundaries they must stay within. They stick to facts and cannot indulgence in speculation as people on social media are apt to do - which would be contrary to the law. That is why discussions about the SNP’s difficulties are off limits here for the time being.

I am not allowing this constant smearing of Conservatism by scare stories like this.

I don't think you have power to stop it, Anniel

The names you mention will not get far in the party mainstream nor in the national consciousness.

You could try the link that Fleurpepper posted. That's not the New Statesman, it's from the US, where this movement is originating.

The names you mention will not get far in the party mainstream nor in the national consciousness.

Michael Gove? Jacob Rees-Mogg? Suella Braverman?

The was a long, extensive thread about Diane Abbott annie1

Did you miss it?

Also, there's no evidence at all of any criminal behaviour in the SNP, however much you hope there is.

I AM a party member. I will look at the evidence but as it is The New Statesman I will wait and see. Chilling is a very serious word. I note you did not find Diane Abbots comments about Jews “chilling”or it was not mentioned here. I found it very chilling indeed. In London I lived close to lots of Jewish people and am old enough to recall the holocaust.

The names you mention will not get far in the party mainstream nor in the national consciousness.

You mention GB News. I had a laugh as their audience is small and they are anti Socialist and pro Brexit …so what?

I have always listened to LBC but they have a few Lefties. Those of you who hate the Conservatives should listen to James O’Brien as he would suit your tastes.

Anybody here who starts on me in personal terms will be reported. I know nothing about this group but I will find out and will also investigate this stuff Daisy A has revealed.

Anything to keep us from the possible criminal behaviour gojng on in the SNP which supporters here refuse to discuss under the ploy of it being sub judice. This does not stop the journalists and other politicians discussing it.

Quite frankly othe Conservatives here may notnbe worried by the high mumber of Socialists here but I am. And I may not be as intellectual as some of you but I am not allowing this constant smearing of Conservatism by scare stories like this.

Surely the true leanings of Gove, Braverman et al have been obvious for some while? As for Farage, dangerous? - very! He may not have been voted in but he was a major player in Brexit, which might not have happened without him. We should be very afraid.

‘the new conservatives’ and ‘new conservatism’ are not the same thing. This organisation is National Conservatism - another thing altogether. The connotations of the word ‘National’ are particularly worrying

ronib

Growstuff he was a senior civil servant.

In that case, he should know better and come up with a more adult comment.

Germanshepherdsmum

Why is this organisation being called ‘the new conservatives’? They are not. This is not like ‘New Labour’, for whom I voted. It’s worrying that two senior Conservative politicians are going to speak at the conference. I can see Braverman aligning herself with the obviously racist (despite the denials) policies of this organisation and JRM with its religious policies including anti abortion. I want to know what they say, but have no intention of going along. I’d rather stick pins in my eyes.

"New conservatism" isn't a new concept. It's a political ideology which has been gaining traction in the US and some Eastern European countries.

This article explains it quite well:

yalebooks.yale.edu/2021/09/09/a-new-conservatism-in-a-world-after-liberalism/

It's "post-liberal". It argues that politics has been based on liberal thinking calling for equality and freedom and that this is a myth.

It's against ideas based on (for example) feminism, marriage equality, racial justice and multiculturalism.

It has very little to say about economic policy. The idea would be for "laissez faire" without state intervention, so the strong would dominate and the devil would take the hindmost.

Growstuff he was a senior civil servant.

Thank you for your post DaisyAnne. Forewarned is forearmed.

Why is this organisation being called ‘the new conservatives’? They are not. This is not like ‘New Labour’, for whom I voted. It’s worrying that two senior Conservative politicians are going to speak at the conference. I can see Braverman aligning herself with the obviously racist (despite the denials) policies of this organisation and JRM with its religious policies including anti abortion. I want to know what they say, but have no intention of going along. I’d rather stick pins in my eyes.

Oh dear God
I thought we had managed to sidestep this by leaving the EU and removing the pseudo-respectable fascist platform of the worst extremes of the Leavers.
All they are lacking is Trump!

ronib

My husband thinks that the new conservatives can come up with whatever new ideas and policies it likes. None of them are going to make any headway with the Civil Service so not sure if we can relax or not.

Well, what a silly argument!

What experience does he have of senior civil servants?

MaizieD

and do wonder what current ministers are doing lending their support to this ??

Showing their true colours?

Sadly, think you might be right !!

I do find this alarming. It alarms me for several reasons - and among other things makes me even more sure we need Fair Voting. At the moment a party can and often does become the government with far far less than 50% support from the electorate.