The Nature of History

Somewhat off topic but I've never heard of the three field system. I've just googled it now. How lucky some of you were to go to good schools. I went to three different schools between the ages of 11 and 16 and the last school especially was dreadful in spite of being a grammar school. I can't remember what history was taught in the first school but the second was Tudor England and the third school was the first World War. I managed somehow to scrape an o level in history because I liked the subject . I think it must have been wonderful to receive a good education from schools that actually tried to help students . Not my experience.

anna7 the history curriculum way back when for GCE only went up as far as about 1830 so anything I've learnt since then has been self-taught!

Crop rotation is a useful system still practised today (even in our vegetable garden!).

M0nica

Fleurpepper we have never had serfs in Britain. Peasants were tied to the land, although it never stopped them scarpering off to towns, but could not be sold or transferred to other land.

Open fields were not universal, only on a sweep of land roughly the same as the chalk/limestone areas. Once you get away from this champion country, you find farmers who had holdings of land and were more likely to be freeman. However there were and still are many landless labourers

Of course there were serfs in Britain. A serf could not be sold (unlike a slave) as an individual, however he was tied to the land and if the land was sold by the feudal lord the serfs went with it. The whole feudal system depended upon the status of serfs who worked the land but owed allegiance to their feudal lord who offered them protection, and in turn owed allegiance to the king. It's where all that rubbish about "my leige lord" came into the coronation ceremony. It's feudal

We had wonderful, dedicated history teachers at my school in London. Sometimes , for example, they would point out that they were teaching the Reformation from a Protestant point of view and they actually tried to give some balance . They also filled in a lot of social history. They were both unmarried women who lived and breathed their work and their dedication to us students. I am eternally grateful to them.

It's where all that rubbish about "my leige lord" came into the coronation ceremony. It's feudal

It is indeed feudal, deriving from the ancient doctrine that a country belonged to the person who had conquered it. So William the Conqueror 'owned' the whole of England and handed out parcels of land to his followers to hold in return for supplying the monarch with men for his army, and lodging and sustenance if he visited their area. That is why the Crown today 'owns' the seabed around the UK, and any property unclaimed after the death of its owner, reverts to the Crown.
www.gov.uk/unclaimed-estates-bona-vacantia

It may seem like a mediaeval concept but it's one that was the basis for empire building over hundreds of years, almost to the present day.

MaizieD

^It's where all that rubbish about "my leige lord" came into the coronation ceremony. It's feudal^

It is indeed feudal, deriving from the ancient doctrine that a country belonged to the person who had conquered it. So William the Conqueror 'owned' the whole of England and handed out parcels of land to his followers to hold in return for supplying the monarch with men for his army, and lodging and sustenance if he visited their area. That is why the Crown today 'owns' the seabed around the UK, and any property unclaimed after the death of its owner, reverts to the Crown.
www.gov.uk/unclaimed-estates-bona-vacantia

It may seem like a mediaeval concept but it's one that was the basis for empire building over hundreds of years, almost to the present day.

Thanks MaizieD I always thought unclaimed estates went to the government. I had to google it to try and find out more.
Charles actually came out better than I imagined
If none of these relatives can be found, the estate will reside with the Crown. Interestingly, in Cornwall and Lancaster, Bona Vacantia are dealt with by solicitors on behalf of the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster thanks to their ancient bona vacantia rights. Current practice for both is to donate the assets to charity
So he was doing the right thing. Not sure about the rest of the UK is it just going into the royal pocket? If so perhaps he will change things.

Callistemon21 Crop rotation is a useful system still practised today (even in our vegetable garden!)

Indeed.

Crops are still rotated, strengthens the soil. People still work the land, just not as serfs, paid labor, no cottage involved, typically.

Thanks MaizieD I always thought unclaimed estates went to the government. I had to google it to try and find out more.

Well, they do in a way as they go to the Crown Estates; any excess revenue from which, after paying the Civil List to the monarch, goes to the Treasury.

www.thecrownestate.co.uk/en-gb/about-us/our-history/

Norah

Callistemon21 Crop rotation is a useful system still practised today (even in our vegetable garden!)

Indeed.

Crops are still rotated, strengthens the soil. People still work the land, just not as serfs, paid labor, no cottage involved, typically.

The tied cottage existed well into the 20th century. My aunt and family lived in one because her husband was an agricultural labourer. The first one I remember had no running water and the loo was an earth closet at the end of the garden. When he changed jobs they had to move. They eventually lived in a council house.

Tied cottages still exist today not just in many service jobs still provide accommodation with the job, anything with livestock involved, herdsmen and shepherds still have cottages.
They have regulated rents, fairly low, and may have to be vacated if employment ends or retirement.

My parents were tenants on a traditional estate, and you do give deference to the landlord, my brother still does today. As other tenants retired he has been able to take over their land, as well as buy other land nearby.

The landlord has other city interests as well as property in the village and is a business associate only, it’s not a question of bowing and scraping it’s like the military, you respect the higher ranks, if it’s not mutually beneficial it doesn’t work.

not how it was in the old days though. There was NO mutuality, only enforced duty, your work and your life.

Much more interested in social history than in Kings, Queens, battles etc. It's how society has developed which is of most interest to me, with the emphasis very much on everyday life. However, it saddens me when I reflect that the human race seems condemned never to learn the lessons of what has gone before, and to just keep recycling the mistakes.

NanaDana

Much more interested in social history than in Kings, Queens, battles etc. It's how society has developed which is of most interest to me, with the emphasis very much on everyday life. However, it saddens me when I reflect that the human race seems condemned never to learn the lessons of what has gone before, and to just keep recycling the mistakes.

Our lives are ruled by politicians, who are just an ambitious as previous monarchies, they also never learned from history. We are very lucky on this island we have not been invaded for 1000yrs, other nations on all continents are not as fortunate. Even Europe is not as secure as we thought and Ukraine could yet escalate into a wider conflict.

Glorianny

Norah

Callistemon21 Crop rotation is a useful system still practised today (even in our vegetable garden!)

Indeed.

Crops are still rotated, strengthens the soil. People still work the land, just not as serfs, paid labor, no cottage involved, typically.

The tied cottage existed well into the 20th century. My aunt and family lived in one because her husband was an agricultural labourer. The first one I remember had no running water and the loo was an earth closet at the end of the garden. When he changed jobs they had to move. They eventually lived in a council house.

Yes.

That is why I said "typically no more cottages".

Some still exist, for a few workers. Rules/regulations as to the rental sums.

anna7

Somewhat off topic but I've never heard of the three field system. I've just googled it now. How lucky some of you were to go to good schools. I went to three different schools between the ages of 11 and 16 and the last school especially was dreadful in spite of being a grammar school. I can't remember what history was taught in the first school but the second was Tudor England and the third school was the first World War. I managed somehow to scrape an o level in history because I liked the subject . I think it must have been wonderful to receive a good education from schools that actually tried to help students . Not my experience.

I learnt about the feudal system at primary school. We also learnt about the slave trade triangle, Beowulf, the Romans and Sutton Hoo before going to secondary school.

You’ve all got very good memories. I haven’t a clue what I learned, when all I know is that I know it. Mind you I have always read a huge amount of history and academic books. I can remember when quite young I used to borrow Trevelyan’s (he was Cornish, like me) books from the library in particular Tudor history, and taught myself a huge amount looking back, although it was largely kings, queens and politics. It was only later that I found a fascination with ordinary peoples lives.

O level was the Industrial Revolution and 19th century.
I didn’t take A level history.

I later (in my young adulthood) read the same period from a left wing perspective - balance is informative I think.

I was very lucky to have an excellent history teacher in the 6th Form- but sadly he was struck very young with multiple sclerosis and we missed lots and lots of lessons.

My fascination with history however has nothing to do with school, or even Uni, although part of my Degree was on Settlement and town development, and the reasons why specific areas were chosen. Everything I know I have learnt by personal study and research throughout life. Same for a lot of other things. Recently our amazing family genealogy has led me to try to understand the roots of slavery and colonisation, and Apartheid, because it is very close to OH's family. And Huguenots, present on all sides of our family in so many regions of the world. And also by moving around, and finding out about the social, industrial, etc, local history of those places- and begin to see links, even across borders.

When you begin to link 'history' to real life, strongly connected to your roots, it all becomes so much more real and holds you by the heart and guts.

Thinking back, there is very little I know that can be linked to my school education! I began to love 'learning' when I stopped school! Still do.

Fleurpepper

Thinking back, there is very little I know that can be linked to my school education! I began to love 'learning' when I stopped school! Still do.

Yes that’s me as well.

The history curriculum taught when I was at school depended upon which exam board was used by the school.

For O Level history we studied 19th English and European from 1832 to the beginning of the WW1.

For A level history we had 3 papers - 18thC - British, European and the French Revolution. For some reason the latter always fascinated me - maybe it was the people involved.

I live in what is now known (officially) as Aquitaine and the Dordogne River is not far away. This region is of great interest to me because of the 100 Years War. Whenever we take friends to the ancient towns and villages along the river I imagine the English and French firing their cannons across the river at each other.

Everything is or becomes history. It’s as simple as that. If we didn’t possess memory we wouldn’t have any history. It’s the one subject that looks backwards and forwards along the path of knowledge and human development.

I studied general history for O level and although it didn’t progress beyond the 19th century it certainly was not just about monarchs and battles. I studied economic history for A level, which led to my interest in social history - the history of the common man, far more interesting and relatable than monarchs. My particular interest is in the medieval and Tudor periods.
It will delight republicans to know that in England and Wales land is still held under a feudal system. The monarch owns all land and freeholders hold it from him/her free from the obligations and restraints which would have attached to ownership centuries ago.

History is important. I remember during the brexit campaign, people sharing memes saying that we didn't need to import anything before we joined the EU, well be OK without it. But we did import so many things, during the war we needed rationing as we (amongst other reasons) were not so easily able to get stuff from overseas. People forgot what a pain it was traveling before we joined, and how we couldn't bring back vast quantities of goods, etc, people then complaing when things went back to how it used to be.
We need to be aware of the lessons of history so we do not repeat them

Turned tv off on the Friday and turned to watch 6 pm news on by Monday ….. they were still going on and in about this debacle! I instead spent my time that weekend volunteering at a good bank ….where ‘his’ people go to feed their families, even though most are working!!!