Uncounted postal votes from last week's elections have been 'found' in North Lincolnshire.

M0nica

Casdon It is the returning officers job to ensure that systems are set up and followed to ensure votes are not forgotten. Given how many votes were found, it suggests that possibly all the postal votes went uncounted and that really would be unfogivable. How could such a thing not be noticed?

The buck stops with the returning officer. He is running the show and has to carry the can if anything goes wrong.

I know Monica, I was keen to understand exactly what happened though. I used to live in North Lincs many moons ago, but in a different ward and have friends who still do, so I’ve still got an interest in what happens there.

I looked on the Council website:
Peter Thorpe, Returning Officer, said: “It is not an acceptable situation to have uncounted votes and below the standards residents should rightfully expect. This is why I have referred the matter to the Electoral Commission.

“Candidates, agents and their wider teams work hard for people’s votes and the residents of Broughton and Scawby Ward should expect their votes to be counted as they intended. I am sorry that this did not happen.

“We do know that this was a genuine mistake. We are working closely with the Electoral Commission to strengthen procedures and ensure all lessons are learned.”

As Callistemon21 said, we will have to wait and see exactly what happened.

Casdon It is the returning officers job to ensure that systems are set up and followed to ensure votes are not forgotten. Given how many votes were found, it suggests that possibly all the postal votes went uncounted and that really would be unfogivable. How could such a thing not be noticed?

The buck stops with the returning officer. He is running the show and has to carry the can if anything goes wrong.

Until we know, i suppose there's no point in speculating!

Callistemon21

It is still the responsibility of the Returning Officer.

Understood, I was just trying to get my head round the logistics. The press reports don’t say whether they forgot to open the box which had all the postal votes in it, or if they opened a box but not all the votes were in it (if you see what I mean).

It is still the responsibility of the Returning Officer.

Callistemon21

M0nica

Missing uncounted votes will have nothing to do with any individual party however much some people would like to blame the Conservatives.

Running the election is entirely in the hands of the Returning Officer, with absolutely no political input. It is up to him to set up all the systems necessary to run the election from issuing postal votes, to sending out polling cards, arranging voting locations and organising the count.

If any votes were forgotten it is clearly the Returning Officer who is at fault because it was his job to make sure that all postal votes were received and were present at the count.

Frankly this error is so egregious, he should be sacked.

If any votes were forgotten it is clearly the Returning Officer who is at fault because it was his job to make sure that all postal votes were received and were present at the count
This.

The process for opening postal ballot packs is set out in legislation:

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/guidance-returning-officers-administering-local-government-elections-england/absent-voting/receiving-and-opening-postal-votes/process-opening-postal-votes

I’m a bit confused about this, in that presumably the postal votes all go to county hall, where they are sorted into wards, and then sent to the relevant location to be counted after the election. How would the returning officer know if not all the postal votes were in the ballot box?

Missing uncounted votes will have nothing to do with any individual party however much some people would like to blame the Conservatives.

I don't think anyone is blaming the tories, MOnica.

I posted this mainly because, despite the fuss over voter ID for in person voting this 'error' has affected far more voters than have ever been prosecuted for personation, and it casts doubt on the security of postal voting.

The ultimate irony is, IMO, that you can actually deliver your postal vote to a polling station on an election day and no-one asks for any ID.

M0nica

Missing uncounted votes will have nothing to do with any individual party however much some people would like to blame the Conservatives.

Running the election is entirely in the hands of the Returning Officer, with absolutely no political input. It is up to him to set up all the systems necessary to run the election from issuing postal votes, to sending out polling cards, arranging voting locations and organising the count.

If any votes were forgotten it is clearly the Returning Officer who is at fault because it was his job to make sure that all postal votes were received and were present at the count.

Frankly this error is so egregious, he should be sacked.

If any votes were forgotten it is clearly the Returning Officer who is at fault because it was his job to make sure that all postal votes were received and were present at the count
This.

The process for opening postal ballot packs is set out in legislation:

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/guidance-returning-officers-administering-local-government-elections-england/absent-voting/receiving-and-opening-postal-votes/process-opening-postal-votes

I missed a vote while living overseas, because the local office messed up my proxy vote. They made the same mistake for the Brexit referendum. I made a complaint, not that it made any difference.

Missing uncounted votes will have nothing to do with any individual party however much some people would like to blame the Conservatives.

Running the election is entirely in the hands of the Returning Officer, with absolutely no political input. It is up to him to set up all the systems necessary to run the election from issuing postal votes, to sending out polling cards, arranging voting locations and organising the count.

If any votes were forgotten it is clearly the Returning Officer who is at fault because it was his job to make sure that all postal votes were received and were present at the count.

Frankly this error is so egregious, he should be sacked.

Oh I’m worried Maizie and I think many Gransnetters are worried, judging by the posts on here. The election in that area should be declared null and void and reheld. Perhaps there should be a close look at the counters too.

Don't exaggerate, Freya. There are no conspiracy theories flying round Gnet. Just one poster commenting that 'losing' votes is part of Trump style gerrymandering.

eazybee

The 'loss'of these votes should be investigated and the election result declared null and void. A similar thing happened in the local elections here, twice. The first time a collection of counted votes were discovered, 'misplaced' shortly before the final count and included.
The next election, two years later, a strong candidate suddenly dropped to bottom place halfway through the count and lost his place. An eagle-eyed scrutineer who had been following the votes during the evening insisted on a recount after the election, and a large bundle of votes for the losing candidate appeared, again 'misplaced.' He regained his seat as the recount was within the permitted time.
The people administering the actual voting process are the people who need scrutinising, as are the counters; these jobs are well paid and regarded as a perk by some local council employees.

For goodness sakes, this has been handed over to the Electoral Commision. The right thing to do. Perhaps read the comments from the Council Leader who is horrified by this . Conspiracy theories are flying well around GN. As usual.

The point is that the Tories are following the Trump republicans in trying to gerrymander the vote. This “lost” votes are all part and parcel of the whole thing.

That to me infers clearly that the lost votes were deliberately mislaid by the Tories, following Trump in trying to gerrymander the vote, (that is altering the boundaries legally to account for moving populations).
At the the two occasions I described the missing votes were discovered in bundles away from the tables where the counting took place, and the only people with access to the ballot papers were those doing the count.
Postal votes arrive separately and I have no knowledge as to who is responsible for them, where they are collected or who counts them.

Nicenanny3

Would be interesting to know who the lost votes/voters had voted for.

Indeed- especially as the region had the most pro Brexit votes, didn't it?

This election with lost votes should be annuled. Failing to ensure all votes are included should be a criminal offence. Resources being wasted on voter ID should be applied to ensuring elections are properly run.

eazybee

^This “lost” votes are all part and parcel of the whole thing^.

Do you have evidence that it was the Tories who were responsible for the lost votes to try to gerrymander the election?

Nobody was accusing the tories of anything in connection with this 'loss' of a large number of postal votes.

The fact that requiring ID for in person voting makes people vulnerable to disenfranchisement is a different matter altogether.

I, and others, have said all along that postal votes could be far more vulnerable to fraud that in person voting.

Who knows how 800+ votes could possibly go missing or be overlooked, but the fact that it has happened, and, as eazybee pointed out, has happened on more than one occasion to her knowledge, makes me wonder just how easy it would be to affect a result by 'losing' a large number of postal votes. Much easier than it would be to arrange for the same number of fraudulent 'in person' votes.

I think I'd rather grit my teeth and put up with having to take voter ID to a polling station than risk my postal vote being 'mislaid'...

The people administering the actual voting process are the people who need scrutinising, as are the counters; these jobs are well paid and regarded as a perk by some local council employees

If you mean the staff who work on election day. I am a poll clerk, the polls are open 7am-10pm. We are expected to be ready to set up by 6.30am and go home when all is finished, usually about 10.30pm for me.
If you work out the pay, it is about minimum wage.
The presiding officer earns more, they are responsible for collecting the ballot box beforehand, taking it back at night and generally having overall responsibility.

I have never worked for the council apart from this.

Yes, many council employees do work on election day at the poll stations, I assume they still get paid their normal salary and someone else will have to cover for their absence. I don’t know if they have to take a day’s annual leave, to me that would be reasonable.

A missed box containing postal votes would be the responsibility of council staff I assume, as it would have been received prior to election day, nothing to do with polling station staff.

Whatever the reason, surely, as Maisie says, the result must be declared void. Is this happening?

This “lost” votes are all part and parcel of the whole thing.

Do you have evidence that it was the Tories who were responsible for the lost votes to try to gerrymander the election?

What's even more surprising is the lack of interest in the discovery at the Met of papers which related to the case of Daniel Morgan who was murdered in 1987. They were found in a locked cabinet on the same floor as the Commissioner's office and should have been handed over to an inquiry which was ordered by the government and reported in June 2021, damning the Metropolitan police as institutionally corrupt and for obstructing its inquiry.

It begs belief as to how so many postal votes could have been lost. It would be interesting to know the results of those votes, even though they cannot now be taken into account

Sorry, Roisie51, but I've been on this site for long enough to know that if a subject really grabs peoples' interest it can garner multiple replies within an hour
Ok I'll bow to your superior knowledge. I just assumed that the timing of a post might influence the number of replies.

Of course this needs investigating in a calm and rational way without all the drum-banging and hype that surrounds and clouds so much of politics.

12 hours (overnight) had elapsed between your OP and this one. Why do you assume nobody is worried?

Sorry, Roisie51, but I've been on this site for long enough to know that if a subject really grabs peoples' interest it can garner multiple replies within an hour

Perhaps I should have thrown a few rape alarms in for good measure...