Labour will be a major reforming government

Casdon

Glorianny

Casdon

You don’t get it Glorianny despite the evidence. Here are Corbyn’s results on the latest YouGov poll.
Fame (have heard of) 94%
Popularity (liked by) 19%
Disliked by 51%
Neutral. 24%
He’s the 34th most popular politician, I won’t sport with your intelligence by asking you to check who comes above him in the polls, but as well as a lot of Labour politicians past and present there are plenty of others you wouldn’t rate.

I've looked at that poll Casdon It is quite hilarious.

The point about Corbyn is that had Starmer any sense whatsoever he would have done what Tony Blair did with the left wing MPs when he was campaigning, treat them as respected but slightly out of touch idealists who had no relevance to what he was doing. The problem is that Starmer has neither the integrity nor the confidence to do that. He sees threats everywhere. He thinks he can somehow sift out anyone standing as a candidate with any left wing leanings and must do so before the Tories do it. It means he has staff sifting through social media and dismissing effective and popular local candidates because they once "liked" Nicola Sturgeon or tweeted about the Green party. It's not only ridiculous, it's paranoiac and it isn't just about Corbyn

The poll is representative Glorianny, like it or lump it.
Starmer is taking charge. That’s as it should be, and if he wasn’t doing it somebody else with their finger on the pulse would be. You and I are destined, as always, to disagree about this. The left have been Labour’s Achilles heel for too long, just as the right are for The Tories. Let the left form their own party, follow their own star, and see where it gets them.

The problem with Starmer "taking charge" Casdon is that no-one is quite sure what he is taking charge of. He has abandoned the promises he made when he became Labour leader, he has failed to stand by or to support what are established Labour policies and has made what can only be described as nebulous pledges. It is so easy to blame the left wing of the party and perhaps, when there is not the outstanding victory Labour should be able to achieve in the next GE, that is what he will do.
The policies which were supported by many in the 2017 election should be the ones he is presenting and championing. Unfortunately he is instead wavering, vacillating and showing he is generally untrustworthy. Corbyn lost elections because the press targeted and vilified him . Starmer might win, but it will be because the Tories lose. As for what policies he will bring in, well who knows?

I do wish those who support Starmer and believe in him could move the discussion on from Corbyn who is simply now the left wing MP he has always been, and not a major player. It seems to me that the lack of any real concepts of the benefits Starmer will bring, means the only real way to support him is to continue with the old left-wing Corbynista argument. Which actually proves my point. Starmer is vacuous and unreliable.

Glorianny

Casdon

You don’t get it Glorianny despite the evidence. Here are Corbyn’s results on the latest YouGov poll.
Fame (have heard of) 94%
Popularity (liked by) 19%
Disliked by 51%
Neutral. 24%
He’s the 34th most popular politician, I won’t sport with your intelligence by asking you to check who comes above him in the polls, but as well as a lot of Labour politicians past and present there are plenty of others you wouldn’t rate.

I've looked at that poll Casdon It is quite hilarious.

The point about Corbyn is that had Starmer any sense whatsoever he would have done what Tony Blair did with the left wing MPs when he was campaigning, treat them as respected but slightly out of touch idealists who had no relevance to what he was doing. The problem is that Starmer has neither the integrity nor the confidence to do that. He sees threats everywhere. He thinks he can somehow sift out anyone standing as a candidate with any left wing leanings and must do so before the Tories do it. It means he has staff sifting through social media and dismissing effective and popular local candidates because they once "liked" Nicola Sturgeon or tweeted about the Green party. It's not only ridiculous, it's paranoiac and it isn't just about Corbyn

The poll is representative Glorianny, like it or lump it.
Starmer is taking charge. That’s as it should be, and if he wasn’t doing it somebody else with their finger on the pulse would be. You and I are destined, as always, to disagree about this. The left have been Labour’s Achilles heel for too long, just as the right are for The Tories. Let the left form their own party, follow their own star, and see where it gets them.

I listened to what Corbyn said not the media and watched what he did.

Jeremy Corbyn has never been and is not antisemitic. Media manipulation was employed to make sure that he could not win an election and make this country a fairer and more equal society. The same media manipulation portrayed Anne Widdecombe and Jacob Reece Mogg as "national treasures" and the people on here who objected to the idea of a different sort of society lapped it up.

Oh Jeremy Corbyn The Big Lie. Platform Films. I guess you all know how the right-wing Labour staffers worked to bring down the Jeremy Corbyn Project. There is a film about it.

Casdon

You don’t get it Glorianny despite the evidence. Here are Corbyn’s results on the latest YouGov poll.
Fame (have heard of) 94%
Popularity (liked by) 19%
Disliked by 51%
Neutral. 24%
He’s the 34th most popular politician, I won’t sport with your intelligence by asking you to check who comes above him in the polls, but as well as a lot of Labour politicians past and present there are plenty of others you wouldn’t rate.

I've looked at that poll Casdon It is quite hilarious.

The point about Corbyn is that had Starmer any sense whatsoever he would have done what Tony Blair did with the left wing MPs when he was campaigning, treat them as respected but slightly out of touch idealists who had no relevance to what he was doing. The problem is that Starmer has neither the integrity nor the confidence to do that. He sees threats everywhere. He thinks he can somehow sift out anyone standing as a candidate with any left wing leanings and must do so before the Tories do it. It means he has staff sifting through social media and dismissing effective and popular local candidates because they once "liked" Nicola Sturgeon or tweeted about the Green party. It's not only ridiculous, it's paranoiac and it isn't just about Corbyn

He said he was there to lay a wreath for victims of a crash, was asked about the wreath laying ceremony for the terrorists and he said ‘I was there but i don’t know if I was involved’ .

Memory loss ?

Anniebach

Attending a wreath laying ceremony for terrorists who murdered members of the Israeli Olympic team was dialogue?

Do you never get tired of posting the same untruths Annie that wasn't why he was there.

Attending a wreath laying ceremony for terrorists who murdered members of the Israeli Olympic team was dialogue?

Freya5

Wyllow3

I agree Casdon and your brief but pointed response Anniebach. Yes. 2019. I was ashamed to campaign in 2019. Locally we focussed on our local candidate MP who is a LP moderate. Yes there needs to be a balance between local and national choices because the aim of the LP has to be winning and winning means moderate policies. We face a ghastly situation in the services we rely on - so much suffering and fear what will happen to us and loved ones and a brutal - and ineffective immigration policy - and it will be limited what the L Party will be able to do but we have to turn the tide against the ever getting further right.

I can sit down with Corbyistas or ex Corbynistas locally and agree with quite a lot of what we'd ideally like - a just, kind and fairer society, but its a matter of realism as to how much can be achieved as the UK struggles on so many fronts. They are not practical nor understand you might want all the stars in the sky, NOW, but reality is moving forward slowly and taking people with you.

I would never vote for an anti semite. Disgusted by those who will.

Corbyn has never been an anti-semite. His history of working for peace and equality stands for itself. He has always believed dialogue is the only way to make progress and his work for Palestine and the awful abuse of human rights in that area has been justified by `Amnesty's report of an apartheid state.

You don’t get it Glorianny despite the evidence. Here are Corbyn’s results on the latest YouGov poll.
Fame (have heard of) 94%
Popularity (liked by) 19%
Disliked by 51%
Neutral. 24%
He’s the 34th most popular politician, I won’t sport with your intelligence by asking you to check who comes above him in the polls, but as well as a lot of Labour politicians past and present there are plenty of others you wouldn’t rate.

Wyllow3

I agree Casdon and your brief but pointed response Anniebach. Yes. 2019. I was ashamed to campaign in 2019. Locally we focussed on our local candidate MP who is a LP moderate. Yes there needs to be a balance between local and national choices because the aim of the LP has to be winning and winning means moderate policies. We face a ghastly situation in the services we rely on - so much suffering and fear what will happen to us and loved ones and a brutal - and ineffective immigration policy - and it will be limited what the L Party will be able to do but we have to turn the tide against the ever getting further right.

I can sit down with Corbyistas or ex Corbynistas locally and agree with quite a lot of what we'd ideally like - a just, kind and fairer society, but its a matter of realism as to how much can be achieved as the UK struggles on so many fronts. They are not practical nor understand you might want all the stars in the sky, NOW, but reality is moving forward slowly and taking people with you.

I would never vote for an anti semite. Disgusted by those who will.

The concept that one left wing MP who has been a popular and successful MP for many years will in some way influence the whole of the country is just unfounded. What is certain is that the majority that Corbyn has built up locally over his term as MP will be reduced. If the people who campaigned for him do so as independents the Labour party must suffer.
And this isn't an isolated case there is evidence that Starmer and head office are removing candidates who have somehow breeched some code only they understand. The result will be candidates no one locally really supports, and seats that could have been won may be lost.
That's the real danger .
Corbyn's just one example of unnecessary meddling.

I agree Casdon and your brief but pointed response Anniebach. Yes. 2019. I was ashamed to campaign in 2019. Locally we focussed on our local candidate MP who is a LP moderate. Yes there needs to be a balance between local and national choices because the aim of the LP has to be winning and winning means moderate policies. We face a ghastly situation in the services we rely on - so much suffering and fear what will happen to us and loved ones and a brutal - and ineffective immigration policy - and it will be limited what the L Party will be able to do but we have to turn the tide against the ever getting further right.

I can sit down with Corbyistas or ex Corbynistas locally and agree with quite a lot of what we'd ideally like - a just, kind and fairer society, but its a matter of realism as to how much can be achieved as the UK struggles on so many fronts. They are not practical nor understand you might want all the stars in the sky, NOW, but reality is moving forward slowly and taking people with you.

Glorianny

Casdon

Glorianny

Anniebach

The far left are working so hard for another tory government

There's an easy way to stop that. Bring democracy back to the Labour party and pass the selection of candidates for MPs back to the constituency party. You know the people who do the work in the local area. Some areas would undoubtedly choose a left wing candidate, but some wouldn't. The resulting Labour party would be what Starmer promised when he was elected leader, a united party. As it is he has taken steps which even Blair knew would cost him an election. He's alienated the left of the party. If even Blair, who was at least charismatic and inspirational, doubted he could win a GE without the left how on earth can Starmer, who is as dull as ditch water, do it?

Thanks for the Owen Jones link Grany. Interesting and true. And the "left locked in the attic" gave me a laugh

There is an easy way to stop it, and that is what’s happening now. Corbyn can stand as an independent, and if the electorate, as opposed to the constituency party members, want him, he will be re-elected.

That doesn't really prove anything Casdon or solve the problem of the Tories winning. Indeed it might help them win since Corbyn as an Independent would split the Labour vote.
As for a Labour party candidate being chosen by head office and parachuted into a constituency what is democratic about that?
Splitting the party and creating division are the surest ways to lose. Nothing to do with the left all the fault of Starmer and head office who haven't the sense to realise it.

Corbyn standing as an independent would not split the Labour vote except in that constituency Glorianny, that’s a non argument. It will strengthen the Labour vote UK wide in fact, because millions of people won’t vote Labour if the left of the party are strongly influencing the way forward.
The problems which occur when individual constituency parties choose maverick candidates needs to be managed somehow, and the answer is not to let the constituencies have free rein. Ultimately people vote for the policies of the party, not for an individual who is unrepresentative for whatever reason. I have a strong preference for local candidates too, but there has to be a balance.

1983. 2019

Casdon

Glorianny

Anniebach

The far left are working so hard for another tory government

There's an easy way to stop that. Bring democracy back to the Labour party and pass the selection of candidates for MPs back to the constituency party. You know the people who do the work in the local area. Some areas would undoubtedly choose a left wing candidate, but some wouldn't. The resulting Labour party would be what Starmer promised when he was elected leader, a united party. As it is he has taken steps which even Blair knew would cost him an election. He's alienated the left of the party. If even Blair, who was at least charismatic and inspirational, doubted he could win a GE without the left how on earth can Starmer, who is as dull as ditch water, do it?

Thanks for the Owen Jones link Grany. Interesting and true. And the "left locked in the attic" gave me a laugh

There is an easy way to stop it, and that is what’s happening now. Corbyn can stand as an independent, and if the electorate, as opposed to the constituency party members, want him, he will be re-elected.

That doesn't really prove anything Casdon or solve the problem of the Tories winning. Indeed it might help them win since Corbyn as an Independent would split the Labour vote.
As for a Labour party candidate being chosen by head office and parachuted into a constituency what is democratic about that?
Splitting the party and creating division are the surest ways to lose. Nothing to do with the left all the fault of Starmer and head office who haven't the sense to realise it.

As in the last general election !

Glorianny

Anniebach

The far left are working so hard for another tory government

There's an easy way to stop that. Bring democracy back to the Labour party and pass the selection of candidates for MPs back to the constituency party. You know the people who do the work in the local area. Some areas would undoubtedly choose a left wing candidate, but some wouldn't. The resulting Labour party would be what Starmer promised when he was elected leader, a united party. As it is he has taken steps which even Blair knew would cost him an election. He's alienated the left of the party. If even Blair, who was at least charismatic and inspirational, doubted he could win a GE without the left how on earth can Starmer, who is as dull as ditch water, do it?

Thanks for the Owen Jones link Grany. Interesting and true. And the "left locked in the attic" gave me a laugh

There is an easy way to stop it, and that is what’s happening now. Corbyn can stand as an independent, and if the electorate, as opposed to the constituency party members, want him, he will be re-elected.

Anniebach

The far left are working so hard for another tory government

There's an easy way to stop that. Bring democracy back to the Labour party and pass the selection of candidates for MPs back to the constituency party. You know the people who do the work in the local area. Some areas would undoubtedly choose a left wing candidate, but some wouldn't. The resulting Labour party would be what Starmer promised when he was elected leader, a united party. As it is he has taken steps which even Blair knew would cost him an election. He's alienated the left of the party. If even Blair, who was at least charismatic and inspirational, doubted he could win a GE without the left how on earth can Starmer, who is as dull as ditch water, do it?

Thanks for the Owen Jones link Grany. Interesting and true. And the "left locked in the attic" gave me a laugh

The far left are working so hard for another tory government

Dear God he never stops does he.

Why I want a hung parliament

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/17/hung-parliament-tories-keir-starmer-majority#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16846669759535&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

Grany

Islington N 98%-2% to keep Jeremy Corbyn as their MP. They demand the right to choose their MP. Not to have one parachuted in. Starmer asking councilors to canvas as no one wants to door knock for Starmer
skwawkbox.org/2023/05/17/islington-n-members-vote-98-2-to-support-corbyn-and-demand-let-us-choose-our-mp/

Hers the actual story.
uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/jeremy-corbyn-backed-stand-labour-100705413.html
He won’t be standing as Labour candidate, but the party members in Islington are free to follow him and support his candidature as an Independent MP.

They can vote for him as an Independent if they love him so much (I imagine he must be a good constituency MP).