Pitch for leader ?

Let’s hope Braverman doesn’t wriggle out of this breach of the code. Attorney General attempting to get civil servants to keep her speeding offence secret, have her do a speed awareness course away from others. Shameless

She was Attorney General at the time which makes it even worse!

Yeah, so the Home Secretary has tried to wriggle out of a speeding fine, trying to cajole civil servants to collude
Honestly, words fail

Looks like Braverman is in trouble over her speeding penalty.

Not long been home from a babysitting stint, looked at The Guardian and hey presto, another tale of dishonesty
Honestly, I am so sick of reading about this shizz
Really so sick

Article in tomorrows Times saying that she tried to manipulate the Civil Service in some way due to a speeding conviction she had last year. Broke the Ministerial code I believe. But she’ll no doubt get away with it.

Absolutely. The endless fields in my area are filled with crops.

growstuff

Germanshepherdsmum

And where you put those numbers matters too. Do we value housing people arriving in dinghies more highly than our beautiful countryside and productive agricultural land?

There are many areas of this country which are not intrinsically beautiful.

Personally, I prefer villages and stunning architecture in cities to endless fields.

endless fields are where food is produced for people living in villages and stunning buildings in cities.

And unfortunately they are not endless.

Brownfield sites are where we should be looking to build new homes and the infrastructure to go with them.

ronib There is a lack of connectivity in your argument.

Disgruntled lecturers often turn into highly sought after researchers depending on their knowledge base and industry will value them.
I can’t understand why Vice Chancellors are paid as much as they are….

there are a lot of disgruntled, underpaid and overworked lecturers so any further expansion is unlikely.

I know DS is one of them, but I am not sure disgruntled lecturers have any say in what decisions are made by the administartion of universities. if they did have some say in thses issues, their pension dispute would have been resolved years ago.

MOnica in theory you are correct. However there are a lot of disgruntled, underpaid and overworked lecturers so any further expansion is unlikely.
Also the obvious problem of how UK students fund university education might impact numbers - apprenticeships with a formal qualification might gain traction.
Also part-time degrees seem to be in decline which is a pity. Basically has the ladder for social mobility gone for those most in need?

The government lifted the controls on how many students universities can admit some years ago. Universities can take as many foreign students as they like and still take all the home students that want to study there as well.

Thanks, ronib. I’m losing the plot. I’ll pop it over there, and get it removed from here.

Siope ‘mad as a box of badgers’ thread might be interested?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Casdon okay no worries

I genuinely don’t get your point ronib. There are place available for UK students on postgraduate courses. The fact that students opt not to do them isn’t to do with how many students from overseas are out-competing them for places - it’s because even if the UK students want to, so many can’t afford to carry on further study because of the cost of tuition fees and living expenses. It’s all laid out. Also in the Commons Library is a forecast that average student debt for those starting in 2022 will be £48,500. Add the cost of postgraduate study to that, it’s like a millstone round their necks for life.

Thanks Casdon for your link. Looking at postgraduate taught/research degrees 448,000 were home students and 372,000 overseas.
The biggest subject winner in 2020 included combined science at u/g although technologies became one of the biggest subject losses.
Looking at the imeche.org (mechanical engineering) website, a figure of 173,000 is the shortfall in people in STEM subjects. This shortfall is estimated to cost the economy £1.5billion each year.

Bear in mind Ian Dunt’s chapter on the civil service in How Westminster works…. and you might begin to wonder how this lack of engineering, technical and scientific expertise can be hindering government.
Maybe draw your own conclusions on how to move forward into the 21st century. Much of the administration here seems to be in a time warp.

ronib

Dear all I am halfway through reading Ian Dunt - Chapter on the Civil Service. Sorely in need of a complete shake up and there appears to be a major shortage of scientific, technical and engineering expertise in this organisation. As I believe you need to be a UK citizen to work for the government, seems a bit silly not to train for the skills we need to at least masters level.

So training 40 percent of a valuable asset and sending it abroad without any work benefits seems a bit illogical?

Also I do think that travel by plane should be curtailed but that’s another story.

Why aren’t you listening to what people who know more about this are saying ronib?
UK student numbers are up, both at undergraduate and post graduate level, including in the subjects you refer to.
Here’s a comprehensive report, with links to further detailed reports, published three months ago which will give you a broader picture.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7857/

Dear all I am halfway through reading Ian Dunt - Chapter on the Civil Service. Sorely in need of a complete shake up and there appears to be a major shortage of scientific, technical and engineering expertise in this organisation. As I believe you need to be a UK citizen to work for the government, seems a bit silly not to train for the skills we need to at least masters level.

So training 40 percent of a valuable asset and sending it abroad without any work benefits seems a bit illogical?

Also I do think that travel by plane should be curtailed but that’s another story.

Much of the expansion in the universities near me would not have happened without overseas students financial contributions. So there would be fewer UK students, less space and fewer modern facilities. We would be training scientists and engineers using out of date buildings and facilities.

ronib Do you have any idea how much overseas postgrads pay for their courses and contribute to the UK economy?

volver3

As a home grown scientist married to a home grown engineer, I understand fine thanks.

Shall we have a chat about the international nature of scientific research?

Overseas postgrads and postdocs contribute to the knowledge base of UK universities because they have already studied abroad - and often they have studied/researched material not always covered fully in the UK. (And vice versa, of course.)

Siope

Shall we have a chat about why this government refuses to properly fund higher education, thus making it essential that universities balance their books by taking foreign students’ extremely high fees?

Shall we also have a chat about the value that overseas students (full disclosure: I was one, in another country) bring to the educational experience - and thus to the earnings potential - of home students?

Yes Siope. I mentioned earlier to ronib about the number of British graduates who choose to do their postgraduate study abroad before returning home, and how our graduates benefit from working with students from overseas, but she didn’t pick up on that unfortunately.