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Pitch for leader ?

(188 Posts)
westendgirl Tue 16-May-23 09:31:34

Is Braverman pitching for Tory leader ? what do you think ?

Grantanow Wed 17-May-23 09:31:28

Casdon

I’m going to talk sense. My dog would make a better prime minister than either of them. He’s kind, loyal, knows how to interact with people to best effect, has no racial or gender prejudices (although not keen on squirrels or birds), intuitive, and funny. He doesn’t open his mouth and spout ill informed rabble rousing rubbish. He’s also very handsome but that’s beside the point.

Well said. Sunak should sack Braverman and tell any other Minister speaking at renegade Tory conferences their job is on the line. I find her comments disgusting.

volver3 Wed 17-May-23 09:30:29

Germanshepherdsmum

And where you put those numbers matters too. Do we value housing people arriving in dinghies more highly than our beautiful countryside and productive agricultural land?

Do I value a human life more than a bare mountain?

Actually, yes. Yes I do.

ronib Wed 17-May-23 09:29:48

GSM from my understanding, the numbers arriving on dinghies are a very small percentage of the total number of migrants. The fact that we have legal immigration without housing and infrastructure available is not being addressed.

volver3 Wed 17-May-23 09:29:31

ronib

There’s such a thing as population density.
So what population numbers can the Uk sustain?
Yes numbers matter.

On a list of the world countries, we are number 51 by population density, sitting at 715/sq mile. Well below Monaco (47,000), Malta (4,300), Netherlands (1,346), to name but a few.

Hardly well known hellholes.

Population density is a simplistic measure used by certain kinds of people to try to make an argument against immigration.

Maybe we should all move to Greenland. Population density 0.07.

ronib Wed 17-May-23 09:24:18

GSM there’s an extreme shortage of housing in the south east and net migration will continue to rise. I don’t think the current trend of building on brownfield sites can continue and new towns and cities are needed. Some serious long term planning is needed.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 17-May-23 09:23:54

Decades, growstuff.

growstuff Wed 17-May-23 09:23:40

Germanshepherdsmum

And where you put those numbers matters too. Do we value housing people arriving in dinghies more highly than our beautiful countryside and productive agricultural land?

There are many areas of this country which are not intrinsically beautiful.

Personally, I prefer villages and stunning architecture in cities to endless fields.

growstuff Wed 17-May-23 09:22:11

Germanshepherdsmum

New towns take many years to come to fruition. The land assembly, planning and initial infrastructure alone take years to accomplish and that’s long before housing is available for occupation. I was involved in putting such a scheme together. They are not the equivalent of ‘houses now’, by any means.

We'd better get started then!

The sooner we start the processes, the sooner housing with infrastructure will be available.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 17-May-23 09:21:31

And where you put those numbers matters too. Do we value housing people arriving in dinghies more highly than our beautiful countryside and productive agricultural land?

ronib Wed 17-May-23 09:17:25

There’s such a thing as population density.
So what population numbers can the Uk sustain?
Yes numbers matter.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 17-May-23 09:14:27

New towns take many years to come to fruition. The land assembly, planning and initial infrastructure alone take years to accomplish and that’s long before housing is available for occupation. I was involved in putting such a scheme together. They are not the equivalent of ‘houses now’, by any means.

volver3 Wed 17-May-23 09:13:34

I don't understand this obsession with numbers.

Do people think there is a ratio, a constant of nature that governs how many people can/should live in any country?

Any government could build houses and hospitals today if they wanted to. Not sure who they would get to staff the hospitals though, seeing as their behaviour has driven off so many medics. Maybe some of the immigrants who people think are going to undermine our way of life?

ronib Wed 17-May-23 09:04:54

I think the best way ahead for any UK government is to agree a plan for x number of migrants per year upto a maximum population of 80 million overall.
At which point, no one will want to live here and everyone will leave. Simple.

Alternatively government could introduce firm caps on numbers and start building new towns and cities asap.
Houses and hospitals now.

NotSpaghetti Wed 17-May-23 08:17:10

volver3

^Who in their right mind believes that any country can have unlimited numbers of immigrants?^

Well nobody. Nobody at all.

But those trying to make out that we are being invaded by foreigners try saying that all the time, until the gullible believe it.

she seems to have more sense than Liz Truss.

A bag of cough sweets has more sense that Liz Truss. That's damning with faint praise.

Was just about to say exactly this!
Thanks Volver

Casdon Tue 16-May-23 22:17:40

Allsorts

I think she is in the right track. Hope she stops on it.

She is for sure. It’s this one.

Allsorts Tue 16-May-23 21:30:47

I think she is in the right track. Hope she stops on it.

M0nica Tue 16-May-23 20:59:43

The majority of the million and a half immigrants arriving here have come here quite legitimately, the proportion arriving on small boats or the backs of lorries is a very small proportion of the totl amount.

Most immigrants are doctors, nurses, and other professionals whose skills we need to buy in because we do not produce enough ourselves, others are students, temporary and contract workers and such like that have time limited visas and most of whom return home once their visas expire.

DS is an academic and he says our universities are still reckoned to be the best in the world and attract a lot of overseas students, especially at post-graduate level. They pay extremely high fees, whci helps fund university education for home students.

Many post graduates are older and often married with children, the same with doctors and nurses, so when they come in to this country, so do their immediate family. This was very obvious during the evacuation of Sudan and the complications surrounding who was considered 'British' and could get on flights and others with conditional visas who often couldn't.

paddyann54 It is nice to think that given a legal way of applying for assylum these people would do that. Some undoubtedly would, but a lot wouldn't because they are not assylum seekers, but economic immigrants and sometimes criminals. The many Albanians coming over are not asylum seekers and nor are others, others being smuggled in are vctimes of modern slavery. Legal means my well reduce the number coming across inlittle boats, but ti will not stop them.

paddyann54 Tue 16-May-23 17:16:21

I'm confused ...I always believed Westminster HAD control over immigration....they just didn't use it .
The boat migrants are entirely due to the incompetence of the WM government ,Give these people a LEGAL way to apply for asylum and process their applications quickly ,that way no one will be risking their lives and the lives of their children in small boats and paying a fortune to do it .
There are a lot of people crossing who have experience of work that the uk needs .Please let them use their experience ,that would be a win win solution

Oreo Tue 16-May-23 17:06:06

Curtaintwitcher

It must be very frustrating when you know perfectly well that your government is making bad decisions but you are not allowed to do anything about it.
Who in their right mind believes that any country can have unlimited numbers of immigrants? Yet any attempt to bring common sense into the subject gets dismissed as zenophobic. This young woman is saying all the right things but is helpless. I think she is too young to be a Prime Minister but she seems to have more sense than Liz Truss.

This.
And I don’t think it’s a hat in the ring for being PM as there’s no vacancy.It’s part of her job and if Labour get in next time I sure hope that it will be part of their job too.

ronib Tue 16-May-23 17:03:03

ECHR meeting in Iceland- Guardian today

Glorianny Tue 16-May-23 17:00:28

growstuff

ronib

There’s more news … Guardian reports on Sunak looking for a Europe wide solution. That’s optimistic. In Iceland for more discussions.

Iceland?

Is he hoping Iceland will take immigrants?

I'm sure they would keep him if we could just send them enough money.

growstuff Tue 16-May-23 16:55:09

ronib

There’s more news … Guardian reports on Sunak looking for a Europe wide solution. That’s optimistic. In Iceland for more discussions.

Iceland?

Is he hoping Iceland will take immigrants?

Glorianny Tue 16-May-23 16:16:12

ronib

There’s more news … Guardian reports on Sunak looking for a Europe wide solution. That’s optimistic. In Iceland for more discussions.

So are we all going to wake up and realise Brexit was just a dream???

ronib Tue 16-May-23 11:29:53

There’s more news … Guardian reports on Sunak looking for a Europe wide solution. That’s optimistic. In Iceland for more discussions.

Chocolatelovinggran Tue 16-May-23 11:29:14

Casdon - he would get my vote. Infinitely preferable to Ms Braverman.