The Johnsons baby announcement

Dickens I totally get your point too.
As is probably apparent, I’ve been Boris watching for a very long time.
I have always known that he was a wrong ‘un and a dangerous character.
It’s refreshing to have a nice discussion with differing opinions

FannyCornforth

I disagree Dickens
If that is the way he treats the people who are closest to him, I don’t think that he possesses the moral qualities needed to hold high office.
He is an amoral liar and we should be aware of it.
He will be hoping to stage a comeback soon.

If the way he conducts his personal life filters through into his political life, then yes, I suppose you're right.

However, the men and women who involve themselves with him are often not entirely innocent either - although I believe his first wife, Allegra probably was to a large extent 'unaware' what she was committing to when she married him. But the long-suffering Marina was also, at one point, one of the "other women", That's what I mean when I say that only they know the dynamics of their relationships with him - the media, obviously, pick out the 'juicy' bits for our consumption.

... and then his political and private life become entwined and we're focusing on his private life when I believe we should be looking at what he's done to the country, our reputation, and parliamentary procedure.

I think my reluctance to focus on his private life is because there are children involved - of varying ages, but they are all innocent in that they didn't request him to be their sire, and everything written about him has the potential to harm them to some degree. I feel the same about Rees-Mogg and his private life... because of his children.

We have tons of ammunition to use against both of them, politically, anyway!

Maybe I'm wrong - but it's really a gut-reaction... I've read a little about his private life, but I don't want to focus on it to the point of prurience.

But I take your point.

Foxygloves

And a falling birthdate would spell disaster for the country- as has been said, it’s the taxes paid by this generation -especially the economically active- which pays our pensions as well as everything else.
It’s not just numbers of population is it?

PS as a prime offender, I suppose with three daughters -there would have been a fourth child, but he died as a baby- and six grandchildren - I suppose that averages out though as must be the case with many other families!
There’s more to Economics than bean counting.

Agreed.

It's generations and the numbers in the upcoming generations. We have 4 daughters, we added nicely, so there's that.

I apologise if it was a tongue-in-cheek comment growstuff I don’t know you well enough to recognise it wasn’t what it said on the tin

I’d never heard of Miriam Cates until I read this thread , but absolutely no woman should stay at home and produce babies unless she wants to. No one else’s religious or cultural values come into it in my opinion. Every baby, a wanted baby. Therefore if Carrie and Johnson wanted this baby, then that’s fine and it’s a private matter as Dickens said.

I wish the baby well as I do all babies, a healthy start in life, and a happy childhood. Otherwise, I couldn't care a damn.

Man with many children, fathers another one

Galaxy I once worked very closely with a serial and prolific adulterer for 5 years.

I was very good friends with both him and his wife.

The amount of gaslighting that went on was astounding, he gaslit me just as much as his wife.

At one point I had to take two weeks off work as I thought that I was near to having a break down.

I’ll get told off for armchair psychology here, but I believe that I know enough to comment.
I’m convinced that he was a psychopathic narcissist

MaizieD

growstuff

BlueBelle

But those fit young people often haven't been brought up in British culture. It seems to me that's the issue which is underlying the concern.

What does being brought up in the British culture have to with anything growstuff?
You sound like an old lady I knew who after meeting my then black boyfriend took me on one side and said very seriously
‘but is he a pagan dear’ 🤣🤣🤣

I'm not the one with "old lady" attitudes!

Were you being a bit too subtle, growstuff? I read it as being sarcastic..

I'm constrained in expressing what I really think.

Foxygloves and FannyCornforth

Some snippets from this thread:

•I'm mildly surprised, knowing how keen an environmentalist Carrie is and how she listens closely to Sir David Attenborough, who believes overpopulation will destroy our planet unless we change our lifestyles and reduce world population.
Of course, it's always other people who should do that.

•No need to worry about population concerns. Most countries in the world have reproduction rates that are close replacement and most advanced countries, including the UK have a birth rate below replacement.

•This is, as I understand it, is the situation re population. In this country the birth rate is falling and the powers that be are concerned about it because there won’t be enough tax payers soon to support the elderly and others who need state support, but in particular, the elderly.

•Leaving aside the fact that 'tax payers' do not finance the country, we have plenty of fit young people wanting to settle in the UK and work but our government is determined to prevent them from doing so.

•And a falling birthdate would spell disaster for the country- as has been said, it’s the taxes paid by this generation -especially the economically active- which pays our pensions as well as everything else.
It’s not just numbers of population is it?

Well, no, it isn't just about numbers of population.

As has been pointed out, a falling birthrate isn't an issue. Nobody needs to increase the average number of children per couple. Most countries are experiencing an increasing birthrate, so logic would suggest that some of them could move to the places on the planet where there are shortages.

Miriam Cates and her NatCon cronies think the answer is for women to stay at home and produce babies. I suspect that's more to do with her religious background than sound economics.

There's a much more simple answer, which is to allow immigration to plug the gaps, but some people seem to have a problem with that. Apparently (according to some MPs and other observers) these people don't have British values (whatever they are). Hence, my comments, which are a follow-on from other comments on the thread.

I'm sure Johnson's offspring will have true British values (as he does) - whatever they are!

Saying how wonderful all this is, is not a neutral act. We sometimes forget that in the whole be kind nonsense. Children are damaged when people have multiple affairs, pretending otherwise isnt true. I view it in a similar way to 'there was no party'.

growstuff

BlueBelle

But those fit young people often haven't been brought up in British culture. It seems to me that's the issue which is underlying the concern.

What does being brought up in the British culture have to with anything growstuff?
You sound like an old lady I knew who after meeting my then black boyfriend took me on one side and said very seriously
‘but is he a pagan dear’ 🤣🤣🤣

I'm not the one with "old lady" attitudes!

Were you being a bit too subtle, growstuff? I read it as being sarcastic..

I disagree Dickens
If that is the way he treats the people who are closest to him, I don’t think that he possesses the moral qualities needed to hold high office.
He is an amoral liar and we should be aware of it.
He will be hoping to stage a comeback soon.

BlueBelle

*But those fit young people often haven't been brought up in British culture. It seems to me that's the issue which is underlying the concern*.

What does being brought up in the British culture have to with anything growstuff?
You sound like an old lady I knew who after meeting my then black boyfriend took me on one side and said very seriously
‘but is he a pagan dear’ 🤣🤣🤣

I'm not the one with "old lady" attitudes!

eazybee

If Boris Johnson supports his offspring, as I believe he does, it is nobody else's business.

I rather feel this is the point. Well, up to a point.

As PM he was obviously going to be under the spotlight as far as his personal relationships are concerned.

But when does it become prurient and intrusive to delve into a high-profile individual's private life?

I absolutely detest the man - I believe he's a 'chancer', a narcissist, and underneath the carefully-curated buffoonery, a rather unpleasant individual (as some who know him have indicated) BUT - as I've said before - only he and those involved with him understand the dynamics of their relationships with him - we're only privy to what the media churns out about him.

Ultimately, if he's providing for his offspring - however chaotic his private life appears to us, it's his business. I will only really judge him on what he has done, politically. He, and all other PMs and politicians are entitled to a private life which won't necessarily conform to our own personal standards. Unless he's doing something illegal in his private live he should be allowed to run it, or ruin it, or whatever... that's why it's called a 'private' life!

But those fit young people often haven't been brought up in British culture. It seems to me that's the issue which is underlying the concern.

What does being brought up in the British culture have to with anything growstuff?
You sound like an old lady I knew who after meeting my then black boyfriend took me on one side and said very seriously
‘but is he a pagan dear’ 🤣🤣🤣

I’ve read the whole thread, and I was still confused. Apologies

... about which you have now commented.

BirthRate !!!

Foxygloves

What does this have to do with the expected Johnson baby?
I know threads meander, but …..

I suspect it's a reflection on the previous posts about reproduction rates.

And a falling birthdate would spell disaster for the country- as has been said, it’s the taxes paid by this generation -especially the economically active- which pays our pensions as well as everything else.
It’s not just numbers of population is it?

PS as a prime offender, I suppose with three daughters -there would have been a fourth child, but he died as a baby- and six grandchildren - I suppose that averages out though as must be the case with many other families!
There’s more to Economics than bean counting.

Discussing the risks in general for women and children in dealing with men like Johnson is a perfectly valid conversation, there are many costs that arent financial.

If Boris Johnson supports his offspring, as I believe he does, it is nobody else's business.

OK I see

It moved on to population size and control, Foxygloves. by way of Johnson's excessively large number of offspring. Have you not read it all?

What does this have to do with the expected Johnson baby?
I know threads meander, but …..