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Can a woman have a penis?

(1001 Posts)
maddyone Wed 24-May-23 11:16:35

Ed Davey says they can. Keir Starmer isn’t sure. Can women have a penis?

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 12:14:44

What do you mean. Gender reassignment is protected under the equality act. This protection does not mean people can't state biological reality.

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 12:12:21

Also despite being spokesperson for the world, I am not sure the government responds to me as an individual.

Glorianny Tue 30-May-23 12:11:40

eazybee

^Of course it's fine for her to speak but not in a university setting where the university is responsible for student welfare^.
So if someone is proposed as a speaker who would speak against a particular group of students then the University should not permit them to speak.
Doesn't matter if it's trans, people who play chess or any other minority

Basically, no discussion against any topic because it will affect some students, who are all adults.
The frightening thing is, you believe it.

Of course I believe it. Why on earth should universities be places where anyone can speak against any group of people.
But in fact they're not are they? Because some groups are protected by law but other groups are not.
Are you saying no-one under any circumstances should be protected in a University?
Or only the people you approve of should be protected?
Where do you draw the line?
Mine's clear. No group of people in a university should feel a speaker at that university is making them feel threatened or unsafe.

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 12:11:18

I am in favour of single cubicles. I am not in favour of unisex toilets as currently being offered. Like the one in the pub I went to recently which had signs up basically informing women they were likely to be flashed at.

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 12:08:56

I am deeply affected by people trying to control speech, I think many women in particular react adversely to that.

VioletSky Tue 30-May-23 12:07:36

I'm glad you are in favour of unisex single secure spaces galaxy

Unfortunately the government has addressed the trend for new premises having unisex toilets and are not in favour due to women being opposed

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 12:06:01

Do you think women who have had abortions havent heard those who oppose abortions. It's a topic that is debated frequently.

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 12:03:57

People with disabilities are in spaces segregated by sex, prisons, etc, disabled toilets are enclosed cubicles with a sink, which I am in favour of, I am sure that people with disabilities hold a range of views about them.

Glorianny Tue 30-May-23 12:03:38

Galaxy

University is not just to hear views you like. How on earth have we got to this stage.

Perhaps because Universities have been opened up to a wider range of people that they once catered for, and the needs of those people have to be accommodated. So thinking about this-
If an anti-abortion speaker was to be invited to a University I think there would need to be conversations and opinions sought from women's groups, to ensure there were not students who had recently or at any time undergone abortions who might be badly affected by this speaker.
If a gay conversion therapy speaker was invited I would expect lesbian and gay students to be consulted first and their opinions should decide.
It isn't really to do with transpeople it is about protecting vulnerable students who might once just have been chucked out.

Dickens Tue 30-May-23 12:02:33

VioletSky

She wrote a book too

Should we make it mandatory reading or should we allow students to decide for themselves?

It appears the majority of academics do not want this talk

Students want a pride event instead that is being called a protest

Should we make it mandatory reading or should we allow students to decide for themselves?

... surely students are free to boycott the book by not reading it, as they are to boycott the speech by not attending it?

Why on earth would you make such a suggestion?

Ilovecheese Tue 30-May-23 12:00:19

Surely attendance at this talk is not compulsory. If students feel that hearing it might upset them, can't they just... not go.

VioletSky Tue 30-May-23 11:59:50

Anyway

I've googled and googled and the only talk of disabled toilets I could find was gender critical women suggesting trans people use them

Which I can't logically understand because I've been told on these threads that unisex spaces aren't safe for women and that women are at risk from trans women in women's toilets

So realistically that shows little care towards disabled people at all

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 11:53:10

University is not just to hear views you like. How on earth have we got to this stage.

VioletSky Tue 30-May-23 11:46:34

She wrote a book too

Should we make it mandatory reading or should we allow students to decide for themselves?

It appears the majority of academics do not want this talk

Students want a pride event instead that is being called a protest

eazybee Tue 30-May-23 11:45:41

Of course it's fine for her to speak but not in a university setting where the university is responsible for student welfare.
So if someone is proposed as a speaker who would speak against a particular group of students then the University should not permit them to speak.
Doesn't matter if it's trans, people who play chess or any other minority

Basically, no discussion against any topic because it will affect some students, who are all adults.
The frightening thing is, you believe it.

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 11:38:04

They would be the exact opposite of safe. You are setting them up to he unable to function in the world. How on earth can you establish opinions if you dont hear those that differ from your own, it means you cant think. I know I am opposed to numerous Tory policies and prefer a labour alternative because I have heard and thought about those policies.

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 11:35:10

Universities hold a range of events some are debates some are individual speakers. Are you suggesting they should stop doing this.
The damage that is being done to young people by not letting them hear a range of views at university would be indescribable.

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 11:31:36

Damages their welfare to hear a protected belief. Can you hear yourself.

Glorianny Tue 30-May-23 11:29:40

Galaxy

Thanks so it's fine for her to speak then. As it would be fine for anyone to speak who isnt breaking the law. Particularly as she is expressing a view which falls under protected belief.

Of course it's fine for her to speak but not in a university setting where the university is responsible for student welfare.

VioletSky Tue 30-May-23 11:28:20

And again that's speaking isn't it? Not debate

Why should anyone platform a talk where the only opportunity for debate is protest?

When the student body is forced to protest then actually whose freedom of speech is being silenced?

Glorianny Tue 30-May-23 11:24:14

Doodledog

*The Union cannot invite speakers who break the law and should apply the same principles to all students.*

So is it against the law to say that it is impossible to change sex? Since when?

OMG
A classic example of how to choose a quote to misrepresent what was said. Still I suppose it shows when desperation sets in.
What was said
Well for one thing if anyone was to speak against a certain race or religion they would almost certainly be guilty of Hate crime.
That's why we have the law, to protect people.
The fact that it doesn't protect transpeople means others have to do so.

The Union cannot invite speakers who break the law and should apply the same principles to all students

So obviously (or perhaps not so I'll explain for those who find it difficult)
Speakers who condemn or speak against a particular race or religion are breaking the law so universities cannot invite them. So some students are protected by law. Transpeople are not. But the university in the interests of equality should extend the same protection to all its students. So if someone is proposed as a speaker who would speak against a particular group of students then the University should not permit them to speak.
Doesn't matter if it's trans, people who play chess or any other minority.

VioletSky Tue 30-May-23 11:23:11

We have established that men's toilets are not safe spaces

So why are trans women who are already perceived as "weaker" because trans men don't feature in debate, expected to use them despite evidence they are at risk there?

VioletSky Tue 30-May-23 11:21:00

I've missed it then galaxy

What are your views on unisex toilets for the disabled?

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 11:18:20

Again if you had followed the debate you would know the issue of disabled toilets is discussed frequently.
Oh and in prisons etc people with disabilities are segregated by sex.

Galaxy Tue 30-May-23 11:16:21

Thanks so it's fine for her to speak then. As it would be fine for anyone to speak who isnt breaking the law. Particularly as she is expressing a view which falls under protected belief.

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