Can a woman have a penis?

That’s nothing to do with the fact that women don’t have a penis.

I'm pro choice

Some of the stories I have read about women denied an abortion recently have absolutely broken my heart

I really hope if there was ever a chance the law could change here we would be able to stand against it in numbers so great we couldn't be denied

I never thought I would see that change anywhere. It's like a bad dream

I need to go to sleep. Theres an extra 'that' in my post. 😴

Sorry doodle it's late.
What I meant is that that saying arm trans kids would apparently not fall under 'hate speech' because of course that's different.

Galaxy

No that would be different Doodledog because.... . It's the utter authoritarianism of it.
I am pro choice, I can cope with people disagreeing with me on that, that's not spreading hate. How unsure of your own argument would you need to be.

I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying, Galaxy.

What would be different?

Who said you can’t demonstrate?
I haven’t seen it on here.
It’s not the protests, it’s the hatred that some protesters spread, e.g. behead the RF, arm the trans children, set fire to the feminist’s home.
Does anyone on here really support that sort of message under the heading of “You must be allowed to demonstrate”.
You could, and I’m certain some would, argue that saying that is allowing freedom of speech.
Do you support such hate speech?

Allowing freedom of speech to say those things and supporting the carrying out of those actions are two different things.

I am not sure anyone has said people cant demonstrate have they I certainly havent.

No that would be different Doodledog because.... . It's the utter authoritarianism of it.
I am pro choice, I can cope with people disagreeing with me on that, that's not spreading hate. How unsure of your own argument would you need to be.

I don’t think anyone has expressed support or otherwise for PP, have they?

And what is arming children if not hate? Conflating biological realism with fascism is a bit low, surely? And it’s not the realists who get others cancelled, is it?

You're right Glorianny, it isn't all about trans issues but when it comes to "a point when people have to stop others who use freedom of speech to spread hate and discord and stand up for those who may feel threatened" it's very much about trans issues in terms of TRA's and women who feel and are being threatened by them.

Galaxy

You are not describing freedom.

I suppose I'm not but I think there is a point when people have to stop others who use freedom of speech to spread hate and discord and stand up for those who may feel threatened.
It happened in Cable Street when the fascists were prevented from speaking by activists.
You may feel Posie Parker has a point of view because you agree with some of her aims, but if local people choose to demonstrate and prevent her from being heard that is their right.
It isn't all about trans issues.

Oooh another interesting fact about the animal kingdom Foxygloves, so now I've learned something about drakes and horses I never knew before.

Bravo Mollygo, an excellent summary of the last 35 and a bit pages .

Did you know one way to distinguish male and female horses is by their number of teeth? Just putting this out there…..

We do have a definitive answer.
Sorry for the length of this but such a long thread deserves it.

Despite the whataboutery of quacking penises, the different interpretations of a clear photo advocating arming children, the involvement of people with dsd, despite the fact that they are not happy to be conflated with trans issues, women do not have a penis.
We’ve been trailed into discussions about dildos and whether a TM should be able to enjoy sex using his penis. We’ve wandered round what constitutes a joke, a lie, a misunderstanding and misrepresentation.
I’m not even going into what I’ve heard about feminism and whose feminism is the best.
The dictionary says a feminist is an advocate of women’s (AHF) rights and that’s good enough. Being a feminist without having to add an adjective doesn’t prevent them from caring for others as has been suggested.

We’ve deviated into strange worlds where some people tell others about their genitals.🤷‍♀️

I cannot précis all 36 pages so I’m sorry for what I’ve missed out.

Foxygloves,. we could have a referendum, but we’ve seen how successful those have been.

Let’s look at this scientifically and practically.
PENIS-the male genital organ, carrying the duct for the transfer of sperm during copulation.

Nobody has so far disagreed with that.
It’s also used for the passage of urine, but passing urine is not a uniquely male characteristic and can be incorporated into a penile prosthesis.
So
A male can have a penis.

A TW can have a penis, because TW are male.

An AHF-the dictionary definition of woman, which is still scientifically accepted, does not have a penis.

A transman can have a penile prosthesis but it is not a penis because it does not meet the scientific criterion for being a penis.

Finally.
A male presenting as a man and a female may have a heterosexual relationship and may or may not use dildos.

Lesbians prefer not to have heterosexual relationships and are not transphobic for saying so. They do not have penises because they are female and may choose to use dildos.

Homosexuals usually have a penis because they are male. They prefer not to have heterosexual relationships and may or may not use dildos.

Non-lesbian females may choose to have a heterosexual relationship with a TW but if they refuse, they should not be accused of transphobia. If he has fully transitioned then they may well use dildos.

I think everybody realises that nobody can speak for all woman, not just 'some of us'.

The comment was a not so neat attempt to move along from the fact that the banner was real after all. At least own it

You are not describing freedom.

Doodledog

Come on, Glorianny

You know full well that that is whataboutery

Well I suppose it is if your whole focus in life is just looking around for men who might have a penis trying to get into women's spaces.
Fortunately some of us are able to understand the wider picture and fear for all our freedoms. And we realise that a woman who keeps such company shouldn't be allowed to speak for all women. And those protesting about her are not just trans activists.

882 posts and we still don’t have a definitive result?
Perhaps we need a referendum.
I am reminded of Danny La Rue’s autobiography
“Every Other Inch A Lady”

VioletSky

Madgran

I think it would have been more suitable via PM

If you read the thread I already acknowledged that issue and worked through it myself, admitting it's a self defence mechanism and that I was reactive to negative comments

It won't happen again

Ok. I dont use PMs in that context but each to our own!

Nobody said a TW couldn’t use his penis as a tool for enjoyment, except on an unwilling lesbian, who he then calls transphobic for her unwillingness to participate in an heterosexual activity.

This is something I really don't understand.

When I was a budding teen, I refused the advances of a persistent lothario who ultimately informed me that I was abnormal because I didn't want sex with him - he was convinced that there was "something wrong with me". I would equate this arrogance - and stupidity - with a male-bodied trans woman accusing a lesbian of being transphobic because she's not into having sex with a man.

Since when has it become necessary to justify why you don't want sex with someone? I thought it was enough to simply say that you weren't interested. How can you give a reason - either you're attracted to someone or you're not? If a lesbian doesn't 'fancy' a male-body, well she simply doesn't, whether it's in a pair of trousers or a dress.

Thanks, but no, thank you. Isn't that enough? Or are some TW so persistent like my lothario, that they have to be given a reason - one that they can then argue with?

Maybe this isn't as prevalent as it appears though - I certainly hope so.

I remember years ago now the Guardian running an opinion piece where the journalist chided both men and women for not considering ethnic minorities as suitable prospective partners - accusing them, us, of being institutionally racist.

I don't know the statistics, but it's obviously not true anyway, because there are inter-racial, inter-ethnic relationships and marriages.

My mind still boggles to this day to think that some individuals believe there's some kind of formula that you should apply to something that is, basically, an instinctive, possibly emotional and purely personal and intimate event.

In my late twenties I 'fancied' a then well-known TV political commentator and journalist. He was short, had thinning hair and some kind of speech impediment, but his intellect bowled me over. My friends couldn't see the attraction at all and told me so. This is the point though - who you are attracted to is peculiar to you... there's no 'you should like this person, or that person, this type or that type. You simply like who you like... it surely can't work any other way - can it?

I actually did bring it up in my autism group and ask for support as well on how to deal with what feels like being deliberately misunderstood and people who use certain tactics to provoke a reaction

I'm on top of it Madgran thank you though

Madgran

I think it would have been more suitable via PM

If you read the thread I already acknowledged that issue and worked through it myself, admitting it's a self defence mechanism and that I was reactive to negative comments

It won't happen again

VioletSky

Madgran

I think there are a lot of other comments that are far worse than a lol and a silly play on words you can focus on

I'm ok, I've learned my lesson

I was trying to be helpful specifically to explain the possible difference between different humorous comments etc, as referred to by you. I was trying to be helpful to you, not "focus" on anything!

You appear not to be finding it helpful so I'll give up

You do know people who oppose abortion are allowed to speak dont you. I have no idea if this is true or not by the way.
I am absolutely terrified by people who think that those who oppose abortion arent allowed to speak. I say this as someone firmly pro choice.