Can a woman have a penis?

Yes women need longer in the toilet for lots of reasons but as long as there are enough that's not a problem is it?

I don't understand why unisex disabled toilets are treated differently

Or why anyone would suggest trans people use them and discriminate against disabled people (the only result of my Google search)

Oh that's good Callistemon , I feel my reputation needs some jazzing up.

Well said, DL and Dickens. This ridiculous coddling of students needs to stop. If their MH is not robust enough to withstand hearing things they don't like, University is not the best place for them.

VioletSky

Why is there opposition to unisex toilets that meet the same criteria? In new premises designed to accommodate them?

Actually, believe it or not, there are some men who might just not want to go into the same loos as women.

They might want their own spaces too.

I was once in IKEA when a woman kindly explained to the woman in a wheelchair that she was sorry for using the disabled toilet but she had a really tight corset on. We all expressed our outrage in a typically British fashion.

Galaxy

Thanks Rosie. I wasnt doing very well there.

You're doing perfectly Galaxy 😊

Dickens

Galaxy

University is not just to hear views you like. How on earth have we got to this stage.

Surely anyone who attends a university is going to hear a range of views and opinions - from other students and academics, regardless of who is invited to speak?

Students need to be protected from harassment, violence and predatory behaviour. Other than that, isn't it one of the main purposes of attending university to expand your knowledge, to enquire, to learn, discuss, debate?

I'm tempted to say that if you someone is so mentally fragile that they can't bear to hear an opposing view - maybe university life isn't right for them?

Many of us have our 'triggering' issues - I do, too - there are things that really upset me and views that I find hard to digest. But if we are to accommodate every one's trigger points, what will ultimately become of universities? Nothing will get debated or discussed because it will upset at least one person.

But that appears to be what many people want. A completely 'safe' place where no-one hears anything that might disturb them. How then do you cope with the outside world later - because it certainly isn't a safe place..

I realise I'm going to get shot down for this - but I really don't believe you can safe-guard everyone from everything. Surely, short of being personally intimidated, harassed or bullied, you've got to learn to cope with - and rebut and challenge - those views that you don't like?

No, you can't protect people from being upset/offended. Life isn't like that.

If you disagree with something, then debate it. With sensible debate comes some understanding, even if you still disagree at the end.

Universities are supposed to expand knowledge and opinions, not stifle them.

Hissy fits and demands isn't the best way to proceed.🙄

In my experience, Disabled toilets are usually incorporated into the Ladies, and yes, they also have baby change facilities. This is probably because the Gents have urinals - maybe that needs to change? As it is, in my place of work, there are Gents loos used by men, and Ladies loos which are used by women, the disabled, parents and now they are also 'gender neutral' on top. Given that it takes longer for women to use them, as we have to lock the door, sit down, remove clothing etc, as well as deal with periods, it is ridiculous that the Ladies should be seen as 'anyone who is not a man', whilst men have their own space.

Galaxy

Actually my position is that places should offer sex segregated spaces and a unisex option. The university I was at recently offered that.

Your post showed up like this on Last Hour, Galaxy

Actually my position is that places should offer sex

Actually my position is that places should offer sex segregated spaces and a unisex option. The university I was at recently offered that.

Galaxy

They are enclosed single cubicles with a sink. That's my answer. But I dont know how people with disabilities feel about it. I dont think the combination of disabled toilets and baby change facilities is great because I think those were facilities fought for by people with disabilities and it reduces the availability for those with disabilities.

No, it's not great. One of these toilets in a local hospital has also put a foot washing sink in there, for religious rituals.

So, you have three separate groups all wanting priority for what was a disabled loo. 🙄

Why is there opposition to unisex toilets that meet the same criteria? In new premises designed to accommodate them?

Some of the Dons, lecturers etc are backing her talk.

And, of course, no one has to attend.

If things offend me, I tend to avoid listening to or watching them.

Where are trans people's voices in this?

Demanding unisex lavatories and changing rooms ?
As well as men's, and women's lavatories and changing rooms.
It's known as pro-choice.

Thanks Rosie. I wasnt doing very well there.

Crossed posts Galaxy. I agree with you about baby change facilities being in the disabled toilet, they really should be separate.

VioletSky

Galaxy

I am in favour of single cubicles. I am not in favour of unisex toilets as currently being offered. Like the one in the pub I went to recently which had signs up basically informing women they were likely to be flashed at.

Ok, I don't know why they would have that sign? Did you ask?

But disabled toilets are unisex so my question still stands please

Disabled toilets that aren't within a single sex facility are a single room, usually with on street or open corridor access. They are much safer because there's usually a degree of foot traffic in the area and any queue is in the open not in a multi cubicled area. Does that explain it?

They are enclosed single cubicles with a sink. That's my answer. But I dont know how people with disabilities feel about it. I dont think the combination of disabled toilets and baby change facilities is great because I think those were facilities fought for by people with disabilities and it reduces the availability for those with disabilities.

Galaxy

University is not just to hear views you like. How on earth have we got to this stage.

Surely anyone who attends a university is going to hear a range of views and opinions - from other students and academics, regardless of who is invited to speak?

Students need to be protected from harassment, violence and predatory behaviour. Other than that, isn't it one of the main purposes of attending university to expand your knowledge, to enquire, to learn, discuss, debate?

I'm tempted to say that if you someone is so mentally fragile that they can't bear to hear an opposing view - maybe university life isn't right for them?

Many of us have our 'triggering' issues - I do, too - there are things that really upset me and views that I find hard to digest. But if we are to accommodate every one's trigger points, what will ultimately become of universities? Nothing will get debated or discussed because it will upset at least one person.

But that appears to be what many people want. A completely 'safe' place where no-one hears anything that might disturb them. How then do you cope with the outside world later - because it certainly isn't a safe place..

I realise I'm going to get shot down for this - but I really don't believe you can safe-guard everyone from everything. Surely, short of being personally intimidated, harassed or bullied, you've got to learn to cope with - and rebut and challenge - those views that you don't like?

VioletSky

We have established that men's toilets are not safe spaces

So why are trans women who are already perceived as "weaker" because trans men don't feature in debate, expected to use them despite evidence they are at risk there?

Men's toilets are unsafe, why is that? Is it because men use them? So you are classifying men as a class as dangerous. Transwomen are male just like the men who use men's toilets. Using your own argument no males in female toilets, no matter how they identify. Or should we allow any man who feels vulnerable in the men's toilet to use the women's instead?
Transmen do not figure highly in the debate, except concern for their welfare, because transmen are not a perceived danger to women. Unless you now think them as dangerous as any male?

Galaxy

I am in favour of single cubicles. I am not in favour of unisex toilets as currently being offered. Like the one in the pub I went to recently which had signs up basically informing women they were likely to be flashed at.

Ok, I don't know why they would have that sign? Did you ask?

But disabled toilets are unisex so my question still stands please

You have been buggering about with biscuits all day. I am absolutely terrified for national security. But yes if you could have a quick word. If you could ask if he could pass a law that limits building work by a neighbour to ten weeks that would be helpful too.

Would you like me to raise it with the Government, Galaxy?

I’m changing the locks on the Downing Street lavs today.

I’m sure that that nice Mr
Sunac would be more than happy to help an influential person such as yourself 😊

Glorianny

Doodledog

The Union cannot invite speakers who break the law and should apply the same principles to all students.

So is it against the law to say that it is impossible to change sex? Since when?

OMG
A classic example of how to choose a quote to misrepresent what was said. Still I suppose it shows when desperation sets in.
What was said
Well for one thing if anyone was to speak against a certain race or religion they would almost certainly be guilty of Hate crime.
That's why we have the law, to protect people.
The fact that it doesn't protect transpeople means others have to do so.

The Union cannot invite speakers who break the law and should apply the same principles to all students

So obviously (or perhaps not so I'll explain for those who find it difficult)
Speakers who condemn or speak against a particular race or religion are breaking the law so universities cannot invite them. So some students are protected by law. Transpeople are not. But the university in the interests of equality should extend the same protection to all its students. So if someone is proposed as a speaker who would speak against a particular group of students then the University should not permit them to speak.
Doesn't matter if it's trans, people who play chess or any other minority.

There is no need to be so condescending. I am not twisting your words. If you can't write clearly enough to be understood, it is hardly my fault. I don't find it difficult to follow English, unless it is unclear.

What you originally said is in line with what you have said before, which is that Universities have a duty of care to the fragile flowers who might not be able to cope with hearing things that run contrary to their own prejudices. They don't.

Also, it is not a hate crime to 'speak against' a religion or race, which is pretty meaningless anyway. What is 'speaking against' a religion? Would that include support for abortion or contraception, or mixing of sexes, the sale, advertising and consumption of alcohol, or allowing women to be unaccompanied, or uncovered?

It is against the law to incite racial hatred, or to commit a criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice, based on a person's disability or perceived disability; race or perceived race; or religion or perceived religion; or sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation or transgender identity or perceived transgender identity, as those things would be considered a hate crime.

In what way does that not protect transpeople? They have exactly the same rights as any other citizen, plus extra protection under hate crime legislation.

If Kathleen Stock were inciting hatred, if she committed (or incited others to commit) a crime that was motivated by hostility or prejudice, she would fall foul of that legislation, but simply saying something that someone doesn't believe or want to hear (ie that changing sex is not possible) is not illegal, which is what I said.

In what way is that twisting your words? I am so sick of these ridiculous allegations. I do not twist anything - I don't need to, as I know what I think and am capable of making myself understood.

Galaxy

Do you think women who have had abortions havent heard those who oppose abortions. It's a topic that is debated frequently.

Of course it is but if you haven't seen the graphic pictures and heard the language anti-abortionists use I suppose you wouldn't appreciate the distress they cause, And this isn't about discussion it's about speakers.