Foreign students…

Figures this year will have been distorted by people coming from Ukraine and Hong Kong, so cannot be taken to be typical or likely to continue beyond this year.

45,000 came across in little boats, less than 10% of the total.

It's quite obvious the Tories can't stop so-called illegal immigration (which is mostly asylum seeking by refugees) so they hope to get the overall numbers down by trimming student dependents by refusing visas. That will discourage some very able married foreign students from coming to UK universities which need their fees. There was obviously a Cabinet struggle over this and the Home Office won out over Education and Treasury. Probably Sunak thinks this will go down well with voters.

They have a campus in Ningbo. And I’m sure Ningbo has built a replica of the main Nottingham University Building.

It depends on the course. I was having a clear out recently and came across my daughter's graduation booklet, in which every graduate in the university was listed. There were certainly a lot of Chinese-sounding names who had graduated in economics, but they weren't in the majority. My daughter's undergraduate degree was in history, but there weren't any. I suspect a number are from Hong Kong too. However, it's not undergraduates who are being targeted.

MayBee70

My daughter went to Nottingham University and it was full of Chinese students. I would assume it still is.

I’d expect a lot of them to be from Hong Kong, they certainly were in both my children’s universities, there’s an agreement in place for them to study in the UK.

I can see a very quiet U-turn because it was the Conservatives themselves who introduced these routes when Priti Patel was international development minister (I think). She scrapped Tier 1 visas, to stop wealthy business people from coming to the UK for money-laundering purposes and introduced this new scheme. The new scheme was introduced as a bargaining tool.

No, because a PhD involves research.

Norah

NotSpaghetti

But this thread is about foreign students bringing dependents with them.

Indeed.

I admit finding that unnecessary, our daughter was an example.

So if you were a 42 year old woman accepted onto a PhD programme you would just expect to leave your young children abroad for 5 years?

MayBee70

My daughter went to Nottingham University and it was full of Chinese students. I would assume it still is.

It's not full of them!

My daughter went to Nottingham University and it was full of Chinese students. I would assume it still is.

Grammaretto PhD students won't be affected because they will be doing research. One year masters students don't count in the statistics.

Most of those who will be affected are those on the new Graduate route, which was introduced by the current government to plug recruitment gaps in highly skilled jobs. It was part of the negotiations with Modi involving Indian investment in the UK economy. I know less about any deals with China.

In 2022, 72,893 individuals were granted the new Graduate visa with only a 1% rejection rate.

Norah

Curtaintwitcher

The majority of students are young people....ready to leave their families and make their own way in the world. Why would they want to bring their parents with them?
Surely older students are in the minority and not numerous enough to make a difference to the overall numbers of immigrants?

I was thinking same.

Young people go to school, want to hurry and finish, be done, get on work. Add in how old first time mothers are currently.

No old mums in our family - however they've all finished advanced schooling before marrying and having babies.

I can't imagine there'd be a huge number of students impacted.

But there will be! Over 100,000 (if the government is to be believed). Most of them are from China and India and these people are currently filling hi-tech roles, for which the UK isn't training.

I've been looking up the countries of origins of most of the students who will be affected. There are a number of countries, including the EU, but the countries with by far the most students and dependent's visas are China and India . They are graduates (sometimes postgrads) who are allowed to come to the UK and look for work.

The above is quite interesting because the influx from India in particular was part of a deal with Modi in India. It's one of the reasons people with an Indian background in the UK voted to leave the EU. They were promised that it would be easier for their relatives to come to the UK, in the same way EU citizens had been able to come.

It will be interesting to watch the Indian government's reaction to this - I can't imagine they'll be pleased. I can't help thinking that it will be a storm in a teacup and won't bring down immigration numbers anywhere near what has been touted.

My DH was involved in International Military training. Post grad level here in the UK.
One Middle Eastern Colonel wanted to bring all 3 of his wives, Needless to say that got refused.

Curtaintwitcher

The majority of students are young people....ready to leave their families and make their own way in the world. Why would they want to bring their parents with them?
Surely older students are in the minority and not numerous enough to make a difference to the overall numbers of immigrants?

I was thinking same.

Young people go to school, want to hurry and finish, be done, get on work. Add in how old first time mothers are currently.

No old mums in our family - however they've all finished advanced schooling before marrying and having babies.

I can't imagine there'd be a huge number of students impacted.

I am curious about the reasoning behind these blanket decisions. Whose bright idea was it?
Will it make a huge difference?
Who will bear the brunt?
It strikes me that some universities are so dependent on the fees from Overseas students that they are offering PHDs in (previously)
non academic subjects in order to attract more applicants.

My grounds for thinking this?
When I advertised my wee flat to rent back in September I was inundated with potential tenants.
I interviewed 4 . All were from Overseas, one had a baby in tow. When I asked her about childcare she said she would find some surely. Her husband and other children were back home in Africa.
Her study was to be a PHD in physiotherapy.
Another was a couple from India who hoped to work in Britain because the wages are higher. She was a PHD student.
Noone had had any advice or help with accommodation from the universities.

Transport would have been difficult.

In the end I let the flat through an agency because I was getting so angry at the way these people were being treated exploited.

I'd be caught out by that, if it happens, but the course I teach on couldn't move to research-based easily, and has upwards of 200 International students a year. I doubt it is under threat, but who knows.

Doodledog

I hope they don't do it until I eventually get my pension .

I think it's supposed to be starting for the September 2024 intake.

I hope they don't do it until I eventually get my pension .

Callistemon21

Germanshepherdsmum

Most married students are postgrads on shorter courses I believe.

And surely, on a three year course, they might manage a trip home in the long summer vacation.

Many of the students who will be affected are slightly older females from countries in the Middle East and Africa. Until relatively recently, very few of these students studied abroad. Many of them marry young, but the world is changing and some of them are allowed to carry on with their careers.

Some of them come to the UK to study, but they have to bring their families with them. They then usually return to their country of origin. Competition for these students is fierce. If it's too difficult to come to the UK, they'll probably go to the US or (if they speak English) Australia, Canada or New Zealand.

My partner spent two years in California after graduating. He took his wife with him and one of his children was born in the US. It's common practice.

I actually wonder how many students will be affected - presumably only those doing non-research masters courses. As mentioned earlier, many universities are now phasing some of these courses out and offering research-based MRes courses instead. Presumably students will be able to bring in family members if they're doing an MRes.

Germanshepherdsmum

There will be no change for those arriving without dependants.

I know. I was pointing out that international students bring in money and contribute to the economy on top of their (high) fees, but are not really 'immigrants'.

If they bring a spouse and/or children with them, they aren't likely to behave very differently, are they? I know the ones I am talking about represent as small sample, but I can't see their being particularly untypical.

It appears that our universities have turned into businesses. And foreign students pay more than home grown students. That’s the nub of it. If foreign students bring their families with them it supports growth. It’s all about the money.

When my son was at university a lot of his fellow students were from abroad. Their families were well off and most went home in the vacations.

Callistemon21 - that is true if you are from a wealthy family - but not if you are not.

The majority of students are young people....ready to leave their families and make their own way in the world. Why would they want to bring their parents with them?
Surely older students are in the minority and not numerous enough to make a difference to the overall numbers of immigrants?