Puzzled about 'kidnapping' lambs

VioletSky

How do people ensure meat is ethically sourced?

Asking so that I know what to look for, I usually look for the British flag... Is that enough?

We use local butchers who sell organic food from local farmers. Certified organic by The Organic Food Federation.

Like these few, google organic farm shops to find one you may like.

www.coombefarmorganic.co.uk/21-our-story

lavenhambutchers.com/

thomasjosephbutchery.co.uk/pages/how-we-source-what-you-see

foodiespy.com/farms/longwood-farm/

Even Chimpanzees hunt and eat some meat. And, when I was at Edinburgh Zoo the keeper at the Panda enclosure said the pandas would eat any birds they caught that flew into their pen.

I remember seeing a video once about animals that are killed to protect vegetables

I think it's a bit of a no win situation

Maybe cutting down on meat and doing everything we can do avoid food waste is the better answer

growstuff

Glorianny

I admire people who are vegan and vegetarian, I eat little meat. Not half as much as when I was younger when I ate anything. One question I have never found either vs able to answer. "If the whole world stopped eating meat and dairy tomorrow what would happen to all the animals? Would you have a wholesale slaughter of them and bury the remains, or would you just leave them to slowly starve to death? Because there wouldn't be enough land to feed us and them, and farmers would stop feeding them.

There is archaeological evidence that hominins have been eating meat and marrow for about two million years. They've probably been eating eggs for much longer and drinking milk from other species for about 6-10,000 years. If everybody in the world stopped eating meat, we'd reverse evolution and I don't think anybody really knows how that would turn out - certainly, none of us would be around to know.

There wouldn't be enough agricultural land to feed a vegan world population unless we felled more forests and took over vast swathes of countryside.
At the moment we produce more than enough food to feed the world population; it is getting the food to those in need which is the problem.

We have the ability to transport water from areas with an abundance to places in drought too. We can do that with oil and gas, transporting it across continents and under oceans. However, the will is not there to put in the pipelines and infrastructure for water because there is no financial incentive for businesses to do this.

Thank you M0nica

Violetsky Buy meat that is either produced by farmers belonging to the Pasure for Life group www.pastureforlife.org/ or bt certified organic meat www.gov.uk/guidance/organic-food-uk-approved-control-bodies

Preferably buy from a local farm if possible, but a number of farmers and butchers sell online. I find both effective ways to shop.

Much as I agree with a lot of their aims I do think they are going about it the wrong way. I think most people just see them as an irritant rather than an inspiration. Taking the lambs looks like the actions of the animal rights people in the 80s, "liberating" mink from the fur farms and decimating the wildlife in our countryside. They need to think far more carefully about what message they want to get across and what will be the most effective (rather than most infuriating) way to educate people.

ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

How do people ensure meat is ethically sourced?

Asking so that I know what to look for, I usually look for the British flag... Is that enough?

Katie59

The population is just as likely to stop eating meat as they are to stop using oil, as individuals we can choose to reduce consumption if we want to, because 99% of us are eating meat and using oil, that’s not going to happen soon.

In 2018/9, 4.5% of the population were veggie or vegan. My guess is that has gone up due to Covid (people seemed to take more interest in what they were eating) and cost of living crisis, as not eating meat/fish is apparently cheaper
Interesting stats
vegsoc.org/facts-and-figures/

It's possible to eat a wide range of animals and their by-products raised ethically, organically from within the UK. absolutely, and that's why we eat less meat because ethically raised meat costs more, and honey direct from the beekeeper who cares about his bees and doesn't over harvest.

Rosie51

Norah The farmer, next over to my husband raises ethically. We've no problem at all for pets, my children, and anyone, apart from us, eating organic, ethically raised meat. We're vegans for health reasons.

Sorrry if I misunderstood, I expect this post

Farmers would slowly decrease herds, as people slowly quit eating meat. No bull in the pasture = no more babies. All baby bulls cut (as mostly happens anyway). The replacement heifers sold more quickly than now - less meat would slowly be available, just because. No starving.

led me to believe you don't agree with meat consumption. Apologies for getting it wrong.

I'm not at all offended. Sorry if I seemed such!

We don't eat meat for us, don't expect others to care.

However, we both disapprove animals not raised ethically or properly cared for. When we buy meat for pets or our children, GC, GGC - eating in our home, we source quite carefully.

It's possible to eat a wide range of animals and their by-products raised ethically, organically from within the UK.

Norah The farmer, next over to my husband raises ethically. We've no problem at all for pets, my children, and anyone, apart from us, eating organic, ethically raised meat. We're vegans for health reasons.

Sorrry if I misunderstood, I expect this post

Farmers would slowly decrease herds, as people slowly quit eating meat. No bull in the pasture = no more babies. All baby bulls cut (as mostly happens anyway). The replacement heifers sold more quickly than now - less meat would slowly be available, just because. No starving.

led me to believe you don't agree with meat consumption. Apologies for getting it wrong.

Night soil?

if we do not fertilise fields with dung and in the great nirvana of the futurew we will not be using petrochemicals to make fertiliser how will we fertilise the vast acreage of land we will nill need to grow crops?

Rosie51

^I cook brown rice and lamb for mine.^ Norah are you really happy for lambs to be slaughtered for your dog but not for humans?

Cats are obligate carnivores so when farmed animals disappear lets hope all the kitties can brush up on their hunting skills, as they'll need to. The songbirds we currently enjoy in our gardens might not lead the applause.

There'll be no more wool or leather, so it will be those lovely manmade materials which are so toxic in their manufacture, some from petroleum based chemicals.

I expect somebody is already developing farm machinery that will cope when the Welsh hill farmers have to switch from sheep to crops.....or maybe not. Still a few more impoverished farmers probably don't count.

I eat little meat but enjoy what I do. I also love butter and cheese and no substitute has ever been acceptable for me.If that makes me immoral Hetty58 at least I have the morality not to steal, unlike those 3 women. If they wanted to rescue those lambs they could legally buy them from the farmer, honest and above board.

Rosie51 I cook brown rice and lamb for mine. Norah are you really happy for lambs to be slaughtered for your dog but not for humans?

The farmer, next over to my husband raises ethically. We've no problem at all for pets, my children, and anyone, apart from us, eating organic, ethically raised meat. We're vegans for health reasons.

VioletSky

I've been assured the nearby sheep are orchard lawnmowers

The trouble is grass doesn't grow in the winter and sheep still need feeding

Having been married to a man who worked with cows for over 40 years I can assure you that most farmers would prefer to farm in a much less intensive way.
BUT YOU WON’T PAY
If there was a bottle of milk on the shelf for £1.50 would you buy the one next to it for £4.50?
I doubt it.
We get what we want- cheap food.

I've been assured the nearby sheep are orchard lawnmowers

I was wondering where you imagined the lamb would come from to feed your dog Norah if we were predominately vegan. Farmers would not produce meat on the scale they do now, so costs per animal would rocket and meat would become hideously expensive. You might not be able to afford your dog.

It’s theft. Sheep farmers have a hard enough time as it is without the theft of their livestock.

Humans are indeed omnivores, but I think the amounts of meat and dairy we consume in western countries is far in excess of what our bodies can tolerate, as evidenced by the levels of disease we experience.

I cook brown rice and lamb for mine. Norah are you really happy for lambs to be slaughtered for your dog but not for humans?

Cats are obligate carnivores so when farmed animals disappear lets hope all the kitties can brush up on their hunting skills, as they'll need to. The songbirds we currently enjoy in our gardens might not lead the applause.

There'll be no more wool or leather, so it will be those lovely manmade materials which are so toxic in their manufacture, some from petroleum based chemicals.

I expect somebody is already developing farm machinery that will cope when the Welsh hill farmers have to switch from sheep to crops.....or maybe not. Still a few more impoverished farmers probably don't count.

I eat little meat but enjoy what I do. I also love butter and cheese and no substitute has ever been acceptable for me.If that makes me immoral Hetty58 at least I have the morality not to steal, unlike those 3 women. If they wanted to rescue those lambs they could legally buy them from the farmer, honest and above board.

The population is just as likely to stop eating meat as they are to stop using oil, as individuals we can choose to reduce consumption if we want to, because 99% of us are eating meat and using oil, that’s not going to happen soon.

nightowl

Oh dear, better tell my healthy 7 year old grandson that he shouldn’t have drunk oat milk from the age of one despite being allergic to dairy and to soya. All properly diagnosed by a consultant and monitored by a dietitian.

Fine, if it's being monitored by somebody who knows what they're doing and the diet is otherwise adequate. However, it's less nutritious than cow milk.

In some parts of the world, owning a cow or goat gives people a survival advantage. If they live in part of the world where water is scarce and/or crops fail, they can drink milk for nutrition for most of the year.

Humans have evolved into omnivores over millions of years and it's doubtful that evolution could be reversed in the short term.