Cancel Culture or Free Speech

But as a parent with a diagnosed autistic child and another in the process

I have two family members with an ASC diagnosis, and plenty of in service training on the subject. I still wouldn’t be conceited enough to claim to know about the impact of ASC on others.

That got a bit surreal or meta or something

We are all randoms.

I'm ok with being a random

Well no but I will be honest and say I will in my work be taking guidance from it rather than from randoms on the internet.

VioletSky

Well I cannot choose the lense you interpret discourse through

But I know for some time that certain media have tried to use autism in trans people as a way to denounce gender dysphoria as a mental health issue.

When in fact, given that other conditions are comorbid with autism and autism is neurological it actually shows that gender dysphoria is neurological

When we admit that it is fact that differences in genes have been found in both trans people and autistic people, it becomes undeniable

Here is what I actually said

But in regards to the Cass report, it is not god

And actually a lot of working class women are happy to share with transwomen, but it's OK apparently for a group of privileged middle class women to tell them they shouldn't be.
Another sweeping unvalidated statement from . . .

Er it isnt the media it's the cass report that is highlighting concern about high numbers of children with autism who were presenting at the tavistock.

I'm not saying that isn't the case VS but that wasn't what was being done in the particular article we're discussing.

Nope you can share with who you want to as long as men consent as I have repeatedly said.
We dont make the oppression of women in prison better by putting men in those spaces. It's like saying well the system ensures this women are oppressed so let's just not give them access to fresh water to finish the job.
But yes I am very pleased about the new restrictions around men in womens prisons, and sport. It's been a fight but we are making good progress.

Doodledog

Doodledog
You have consistently on all these threads accused me of twisting or misconstruing what you have said that was why I referred to "your personal favourite".
I do accuse you to twisting (not so much misconstruing) because you do it all the time. The 'Gotcha!' is your trademark. All the same, in this case, as I asked you to give me an example, and you replied with the one about biological women, it is not unreasonable for me to assume that the two things were linked. Is it any wonder that you are 'misconstrued' if you use random examples as replies to specific questions. That is how misunderstandings arise.

Asfor the some people I leave you to search through the thread. Quite frankly it neither amuses me or concerns me enough to bother.
No need for examples, as I wasn't asking for them. I was pointing out that (a) it is pointless to throw about general accusations, and (b) that there is good reason for All People to return to points that haven't been answered - not for purposes of 'hounding', but to stop propaganda drops from standing unchallenged, and to progress the conversation.

I will now not answer any more of your posts on these minutiae, it is boring.
Oh, I agree. But being bored is a price that sometimes has to be paid to prevent constant lies being told about how one 'side' in these discussions is the victim of the other. I object to the sniping and allegations of bullying (and more) that are thrown at anyone who disagrees with the TWAW point of view, and do sometimes feel the need to show them for what they are.

My original post on this topic only covered the first 9 pages of what was then a thread of 25 pages or so. There are many further examples (including my being told I was 'pathetic', 'desperate' and more), yet it is we who are accused of personal insults.

I'm not expecting you to care about any of that, but other people reading the threads can now see that your allegations don't stack up, which is, frankly, more important to me.

Ok Doodledog I admit it "I shot the Sheriff!"
(but I did not shoot the deputy)

Well I cannot choose the lense you interpret discourse through

But I know for some time that certain media have tried to use autism in trans people as a way to denounce gender dysphoria as a mental health issue.

When in fact, given that other conditions are comorbid with autism and autism is neurological it actually shows that gender dysphoria is neurological

When we admit that it is fact that differences in genes have been found in both trans people and autistic people, it becomes undeniable

Galaxy

I will be honest and say there is nothing more that demonstrates middle class privilege than thinking it's ok for men to be in womens spaces. The presence of men frequently impacts the most vulnerable women those in prisons, women with disabilities etc.

That isn't the view of intersectional feminists, who would disagree not only about what you have said but the premise behind it. Firstly that it is women who decide who should be in these spaces (it isn't, it is men) . Most intersectional feminists would tell you that the women in prison are there because of a system which oppresses women and treats them differently. That that oppression differs because upper class white women are able to use the system and stay out of prison whereas poor black women will be imprisoned.

And the law protects single sex spaces, so transwomen will not be in them

And actually a lot of working class women are happy to share with transwomen, but it's OK apparently for a group of privileged middle class women to tell them they shouldn't be.

You know your own children VS and this father knows his son. As a parent of an autistic child, your experience doesn't trump his or anyone else's.

We don't know whether father and son are estranged but if they are that's not necessarily the fault of the father. Parent blaming is unfair and bias.

GrannyGravy13

VioletSky
"With someone with autism that's definitely the case"

No come on, it says what it says

It's not disputable

Any one who knows anything about autism, knows the rule that if you know one person with autism, you know ONE person. We hear that in school every time there is training for working with children who have ASC.

Every autistic person is different VioletSky and in this instance I am happy to believe the parents opinions who know the child as opposed to your opinion.

Agreed GrannyGravy13.

Well, if the paper didn't appeal to readers they wouldnt be able to print

But as a parent with a diagnosed autistic child and another in the process this father demonstrably does not understand autism, mental health or his own child and I am guessing from the language they are no longer in a relationship due to that.

VioletSky

"With someone with autism that's definitely the case"

No come on, it says what it says

It's not disputable

... I read it as "developmental delays" - is that not the case? Is developmental delays the same as 'fragile' mental health'?

My grandson has development delays, but is not regarded - by anyone - as being in a fragile mental state of health.

Perhaps I'd better read the whole article, rather than the pieces of text you've selected.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny I am amazed that you cannot see that the TWAW phrase is patriarchal?

Of course it isn't it's intersectional feminist!
To explain. Feminism became at one point very restrictive, it was led by and catered for white middle class women. In order to deal with this and open the movement up to more women we accepted that there are levels of privilege and levels of oppression, and these differed between women. So black women suffer more oppression that white women, working class women suffer more oppression than upper class women. It was then easy to include in the movement transwomen who also suffer oppression. Although the levels of oppression are different, the oppression we suffer as women is common to us all and the oppression intersects- hence intersectional feminism Theres a diagram
This is worth reading
www.womankind.org.uk/intersectionality-101-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-important/

Please…

You are not the only poster in GN who know about intersectional feminism.

I stand by my comment that the trans women who are shouting the loudest that TWAW is not only patriarchy but misogyny as it is being shouted by people who were born men and who will die as men.

How they present and live their lives in between is up to them, but there is no getting away from the fact that no amount of surgery or hormone treatments can transform their bodies into women.

I will be honest and say there is nothing more that demonstrates middle class privilege than thinking it's ok for men to be in womens spaces. The presence of men frequently impacts the most vulnerable women those in prisons, women with disabilities etc.

VioletSky

"With someone with autism that's definitely the case"

No come on, it says what it says

It's not disputable

Every autistic person is different VioletSky and in this instance I am happy to believe the parents opinions who know the child as opposed to your opinion

Than you for providing examples VS but I don't agree with your interpretation of what was written in the article and I see from Dickens's post that I am not alone in thinking so.

I'm a feminist and have the same beliefs and core values as those who refer to themselves as intersectional so for me they are one in the same. I don't consider IF to be unworthy and have and do experience and understand it as it is feminism.

"With someone with autism that's definitely the case"

No come on, it says what it says

It's not disputable

VioletSky

First example father states that all autistic individuals follow the same pattern developmentally

This is false

Second example father says "autism and fragile mental health" with no allowance that the sons fragile mental health is not directly related to autism

This is also false

Both parents were opposed to their child's treatment as was stated in the article and this lack of support is a possible cause for their child's fragile mental state...

Unacknowledged completely in this article that doesn't seem to deem a 21 year old as able to contribute their own opinion on the subject or any autistic trans person at all... The writer has instead sought out a detransitioner for comment only which shows bias

First example father states that all autistic individuals follow the same pattern developmentally

This is false

Unless some of the text is missing from your sample - the father is only talking about his son and nowhere in that piece of text you've provided does he say that all autistic individuals follow the same pattern...

Second example father says "autism and fragile mental health" with no allowance that the sons fragile mental health is not directly related to autism

That second sample is somewhat ambiguous - the father's choice of words can be taken to mean that he either thinks they are linked - or not linked. He doesn't say they are, and doesn't say they're not.

So it's open to interpretation.

Who says people haven't heard about it?

Just as comments about 'looking beyond msm' don't mean that nobody would have thought to do so before, patronising lectures don't necessarily add anything to the body of knowledge on these threads.

Intersectional feminism is a huge, it really surprises me people haven't heard of it or would deem it unworthy without experience or understanding

There are 2.8 million members in my group alone which exists simply to share positive stories about overcoming adversity and building up other women