Cancel Culture or Free Speech

Mollygo

Doodledog
These accusations of people 'twisting', and 'manipulating' and 'hounding' really need to stop. They are attempts to smear the posters who dare to have a different opinion, and I, for one, strongly object to it. I am not a reporter of posts, as I think that it is better to show these tactics for what they are, but I am so fed up with it, as it happens on every thread on this subject.

That is the pattern, and it is very unfair.

Well put, and true every time.

Absolutely right. Weak, ineffective attempts to divert attention from the fact that the question which has been asked has not been answered... usually because it can't be. Several of us on this thread have now collectively asked for concrete examples of Kathleen Stock's "hateful and intolerant" views, and we're still patiently waiting for them. Surely no-one would make such extremely derogatory accusations without some solid proof?.. Or would they?

Galaxy

Again people who oppose abortion are perfectly entitled to speak, I cant believe I am having to say this again.

Galaxy it's fine to approve of free speech but surely saying publicly you approve of someone is far more than that.
And ignoring the agenda and the philosophy that underpins Posie Parker's speeches is just unacceptable. Particularly in a woman who promotes herself as an advocate for women.

Namsnanny

You haven't read the article

That's ok

The answers are there if you change your mind

VioletSky

Namsnanny

Ah, I see you have found her on unherd

Not found, was aware of, in particular the most clearly provocative, rude and condescending article I've seen in the subject.

For a woman who believed flying trans flags on campus was a "personal attack" against her and styles herself a "moderate"

Well it just doesn't look good

Anyway
I've shared an article explaining what I believe is transphobic dialogue, it's up to those asking for answers to take the time to read it or not.

Sorry Violet but you haven't shown the words she used, and why they are hateful to you or anybody else.

I guess, if you dont want to then that's my answer in a way.

Doodledog

Can you please explain what is right wing about biological realism? Not with references to Christianity in the US or similar, but in terms of the UK situation. I just don't see how that is the case, unless you are using a very different definition of right wing from my understanding.

Left wing is about creating equality. It isn't about separating people, castigating people or demonising people.

Right wing ideology needs to create us and them. Will then tell you that "they" have more than "us" or "they" are a problem for "us". Over the years the others have been black people, gay people, the poor, women or any other group they could effectively target. Now it's trans people. (and to a certain degree immigrants,, but that is proving harder to instigate because of economics).
Right wing then blames those people for everything. Those people are dealt with, or suitably cowed into silence. Right wing then needs another target. And so it goes on.

M0nica

I am still waiting for the reply from VioletSky telling us what Kathleen Stocker did or said that demonstrated her 'hate' of transgender people.

It is a classic underhand way of undermining someone. Accuse them of something they did not do and then go silent when they are challenged for the evidence. Mud then sticks.

Smileless

I did not reply fast enough to the many calls for a reply so this was assigned to me unfairly

I replied as soon as I was able too

There may be other examples I can find for you too that are not simply asking a question of me

She'll be claiming alternative facts next.

I would agree that the reality if biological sex is not an original idea.

Smileless2012

There were no demands for answers VS which is why GagaJo was unable to show any.

I agree Galaxy she has been brave in the face of adversity and making money isn't a crime.

Don't misquote me.

I didn't bother looking. I saw ONE from someone else.

'Brave in the face of adversity'. Except there wasn't any adversity until she chased and created some. And protested wildly in the media creating a storm where none had existed.

At least JK Rowling's opinions are genuine instead of a media storm in a tea cup.

I think there was plenty of speaking out long before she popped her head above the parapet

Doc Stock’s head has been above the parapet for a very long time.

Again people who oppose abortion are perfectly entitled to speak, I cant believe I am having to say this again.

VioletSky

Gagajo

www.thepinknews.com/2020/01/07/kathleen-stock-gender-critical-transgender-pride-flag-university-sussex-donald-trump/

FFS. Goes to work at one of the most progressive uni's in the UK in terms of Queer Theory. Doesn't like it when queer rights are promoted.

It's an earner to her, and nothing more. The Gender Critical have a heroine who doesn't actually have an original idea of her own at all.

Smileless2012

You've said Kathleen Stock "apparently" tweeted approval for Posie Parker. That's not the same as actually doing so so is there any evidence.

I don't see what KS view on abortion has to do with her books and talks on trans gender.

twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1539337442649587712?lang=en
Here's the link again Smileless2012

For the record Posie Parker opposes abortion, thinks Gillick competence should be abandoned, wants to annihilate women who stand in her way and speaks against transpeople under the umbrella of "Let Women Speak" (but only some women apparently)

There were no demands for answers VS which is why GagaJo was unable to show any.

I agree Galaxy she has been brave in the face of adversity and making money isn't a crime.

Gagajo

www.thepinknews.com/2020/01/07/kathleen-stock-gender-critical-transgender-pride-flag-university-sussex-donald-trump/

I think the concept of gender is regressive old fashioned and would put it in the right wing bracket if I thought left and right had much relevance.
If the left had any sense they would understand that trying to stop discussion on say men in prisons and sports was handing votes to the right.

Kathleen Stock did not think trans flags were a personal attack on her and it is dishonest of you VS to post that.

From Wikipedia

In October 2021, she resigned from the University of Sussex.[11] This came after a student campaign took place calling for her dismissal and the university trade union accused the university of "institutional transphobia."[12][13] A group of over 200 academic philosophers from the UK signed an open letter in support of Stock's academic freedom.[14][15]

On 28 October 2021, the university announced Stock's resignation from the position following controversy around her views on gender identity; the announcement, written by the school's vice-chancellor, expressed regret that Stock did not "feel able to return to work" and that she had been subject to "bullying and harassment"

Can you please explain what is right wing about biological realism? Not with references to Christianity in the US or similar, but in terms of the UK situation. I just don't see how that is the case, unless you are using a very different definition of right wing from my understanding.

Galaxy

I personally hope she is earning a fortune, it was her bravery that enabled many of us to speak out about single sex spaces.

Do you really not see any connection Galaxy between what you call speaking out and the increasing demonisation of transpeople in the media? Doesn't the agenda of the right wing bother you?

Gagajo

Sorry I didn't thank you for standing up against the many demands for answers

Apart from not having gransnet in my face all the time, I was awake at silly o'clock this morning unwell, so I slept in.

We are not confined to a discussion, have lives outside gransnet and those waiting for answers may find that exercising a little patience makes for a better discussion overall

Thank you

Galaxy

I personally hope she is earning a fortune, it was her bravery that enabled many of us to speak out about single sex spaces.

I think there was plenty of speaking out long before she popped her head above the parapet. There is never a shortage of protest against change. I remember getting insults hurled in the streets when holding hands with another woman. Wouldn't happen now.

I personally hope she is earning a fortune, it was her bravery that enabled many of us to speak out about single sex spaces.

VioletSky

Namsnanny

Ah, I see you have found her on unherd

Not found, was aware of, in particular the most clearly provocative, rude and condescending article I've seen in the subject.

For a woman who believed flying trans flags on campus was a "personal attack" against her and styles herself a "moderate"

Well it just doesn't look good

Anyway
I've shared an article explaining what I believe is transphobic dialogue, it's up to those asking for answers to take the time to read it or not.

Did she? At SUSSEX uni? Home of Queer Theory in the UK. In Brighton? LGBTQ capital of England. She really thought it was an attack on her?

Jeez. Over inflated sense of self importance. Or attention grabbing. Well, she achieved her aim. Nice little earner.

Galaxy

To be honest if people want to call me right wing they can crack on it isnt true but you know. I think right wing people have the right to speak too

Yes, me too. I even have some amongst my friends. We don't agree on a lot of things to do State involvement in economics, but we somehow manage not to let that get in the way

Galaxy

To be honest if people want to call me right wing they can crack on it isnt true but you know. I think right wing people have the right to speak too

I agree.