Is there still a Conservative Party?

Glorianny

Whitewavemark2

Would you like me to start a thread for you grany?

It's my thread and I don't mind threads wandering. If you want to start one feel free.

Oh yes! Excellent idea.

This thread can become grany’s thread to voice her criticism of the Labour Party and those interested can discuss the Tory Party as is and whether it reflects conservative values.

Thank you

Whitewavemark2

Would you like me to start a thread for you grany?

It's my thread and I don't mind threads wandering. If you want to start one feel free.

I was wondering if as a result of not supporting Jamie Driscoll, an incredibly popular local mayor, the Labour party fail to win the NE mayor election who will be blamed? It seems quite a possibility to me as Labour voters are split into those who will support the party not the person, those who will not vote, and those who will go with a Green or Lib Dem candidate. If that divided vote means a Tory wins whose fault is that?

Would you like me to start a thread for you grany?

Casdon

Grany

Annie

@Naomi4LabNEC

So the letter from
@Keir_Starmer
saying
@rogerwaters
should be banned is genuine. A Labour Party leader actually said this. I had assumed/hoped it was a fake. Shame, shame, shame.

Roger Waters video speaks up for himself. He is a campaigner against the apartheid state of Israel. The names were all people that have been persecuted suffered fascism which includes Ann Frank.

You are on dangerous ground here Grany, Roger Waters has alienated Jews all over the world with his actions. There are literally hundreds of reports online. Starmer is saying nothing different to any other politician.

www.timesofisrael.com/in-germany-roger-waters-dons-ss-garb-projects-anne-franks-name-to-bash-israel/

Apart from the fact that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Conservative Party, which to remind you yet again is what this thread is about, if you really want to discuss it start another thread for goodness sake.

Oh really can't believe that article. Linking the pink pig balloon to anti-semitism! The pink pig has been flying since 1977, when one escaped from Battersea Power Station!
www.timeout.com/london/news/pink-floyd-might-recreate-their-flying-pig-over-battersea-power-station-092622#:~:text=During%20the%201976%20photoshoot%2C%20the,becoming%20something%20of%20a%20legend.

MaiszieD you were talking about Starmer and Reeves view on the economy is that the conservative view similar. Talk is of other parties too. The OP which I agree with mentioned Labour is like Conservative. So this post has meandered I say Starmer is Conservative brought the party to the right not many can disagree with that. If you all want to talk Conservative why don't you. I don't like to argue with posters just discuss the topic, but as I find Starmer acting like Conservative I may say so.

Apart from the fact that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Conservative Party, which to remind you yet again is what this thread is about, if you really want to discuss it start another thread for goodness sake.

Is it worth reporting this constant deflection of threads to the evils of Starmer and the current Labour Party (or the monarchy, come to that)?

I don't mean this to be unkind, but perhaps if her deflecting posts were deleted every time Grany would then start her own threads rather than hijacking others.

Trying not to sound like 'thread police', but it does get tedious.

Yanis Varoufakis
@yanisvaroufakis

Ever so proud of Roger Waters. The ease with which, 40 yrs after its inception as a musical masterpiece at the forefront of Anti-Nazism/Fascism, THE WALL has been portrayed as, somehow, antisemitic or profascist is an affront to everyone who abhors antisemitism-fascism-nazism

Roger Waters is not anti semitic
People have seen the concert and found nothing wrong with the theatre

Grany

Annie

@Naomi4LabNEC

So the letter from
@Keir_Starmer
saying
@rogerwaters
should be banned is genuine. A Labour Party leader actually said this. I had assumed/hoped it was a fake. Shame, shame, shame.

Roger Waters video speaks up for himself. He is a campaigner against the apartheid state of Israel. The names were all people that have been persecuted suffered fascism which includes Ann Frank.

You are on dangerous ground here Grany, Roger Waters has alienated Jews all over the world with his actions. There are literally hundreds of reports online. Starmer is saying nothing different to any other politician.

www.timesofisrael.com/in-germany-roger-waters-dons-ss-garb-projects-anne-franks-name-to-bash-israel/

Apart from the fact that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Conservative Party, which to remind you yet again is what this thread is about, if you really want to discuss it start another thread for goodness sake.

Pink Floyd sang "We don't need no education", but clearly Roger Waters needs educating about prejudice & antisemitism. It is wildly inappropriate
to misuse Anne Frank's legacy. Here at The Anne Frank Trust, our young people learn from Anne Frank and the Holocaust, empowering them to challenge prejudice. We invite Roger
to meet with us and do the same
AuneKanker

Annie

@Naomi4LabNEC

So the letter from
@Keir_Starmer
saying
@rogerwaters
should be banned is genuine. A Labour Party leader actually said this. I had assumed/hoped it was a fake. Shame, shame, shame.

Roger Waters video speaks up for himself. He is a campaigner against the apartheid state of Israel. The names were all people that have been persecuted suffered fascism which includes Ann Frank.

grany the Anne Frank Trust has spoken out against Roger Walters

“Reeves is clear that “there is not a huge amount of room for manoeuvre”, saying the government cannot simply borrow its way to better public services.”

My interpretation is that Starmer wants to borrow to stimulate industry to generate more growth to fund improved services.

That was the theme of the Kwarteng policy but he made chaos of the presentation.

MaizieD I just had to google - and I found Rachael Reeves had written a policy document in 2018 which isn’t where the economy is now. I don’t know if she has updated her thoughts?

ronib

Oreo don’t forget that economics is not an exact science. We have economists working for this present government and I would like to know how Rachael Reeves plans to run the economy differently to the current orthodoxy.

I don't think that she does plan to run it differently. That's what worries me...

Economists may think that it's an exact science, but there a re a number of different schools of thought. Just because one has been predominant for the past 40 years doesn't make it correct. It's the one which gave us the austerity of the Osborne era and which still holds today. Austerity gave us swingeing cuts to government services, for which we are all suffering now.

Oreo don’t forget that economics is not an exact science. We have economists working for this present government and I would like to know how Rachael Reeves plans to run the economy differently to the current orthodoxy.

Funniest thing in that is Alistair Campbell crediting Starmer with proving the Conservatives are not fit to do the job. Think they managed that one all by themselves!.

MaizieD

This one comes from the same series, 'The Starmer Project' and is more recent, it's from yesterday.

Written by a different journalist, Chris Giles, and heavily dependent on the 'taxes fund spending' approach, which is the angle that the opposing parties and the nedia will be working from, it is rather less bullish...

I don't know if it's a free link, I'm an FT subscriber so I can access it, but give it a try

www.ft.com/content/e910f8e4-013f-4efb-87a1-770354341d37

This makes my heart sink...

Reeves is clear that “there is not a huge amount of room for manoeuvre”, saying the government cannot simply borrow its way to better public services. “Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng tested to destruction the idea of deficit financed spending, so it is really important we explain where the money is going to come from,” referring to the former prime minister and her chancellor.

In other words, if constrained by the neoliberal economic thinking that's held sway since Thatcher (cut the deficit), Keynesianism (spend out of a depression) we could be in for more austerity... 😒

I just hope that once they're in power they ignore the current 'orthodoxy' and go for it... It worked for the post WW2 Labour government.

Since Rachel Reeves studied and graduated in economics from the LSE and later became an economist at the Bank Of England amongst other jobs, I think she knows what she’s talking about.

I think we've posted the same critique, Casdon

This one comes from the same series, 'The Starmer Project' and is more recent, it's from yesterday.

Written by a different journalist, Chris Giles, and heavily dependent on the 'taxes fund spending' approach, which is the angle that the opposing parties and the nedia will be working from, it is rather less bullish...

I don't know if it's a free link, I'm an FT subscriber so I can access it, but give it a try

www.ft.com/content/e910f8e4-013f-4efb-87a1-770354341d37

This makes my heart sink...

Reeves is clear that “there is not a huge amount of room for manoeuvre”, saying the government cannot simply borrow its way to better public services. “Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng tested to destruction the idea of deficit financed spending, so it is really important we explain where the money is going to come from,” referring to the former prime minister and her chancellor.

In other words, if constrained by the neoliberal economic thinking that's held sway since Thatcher (cut the deficit), Keynesianism (spend out of a depression) we could be in for more austerity... 😒

I just hope that once they're in power they ignore the current 'orthodoxy' and go for it... It worked for the post WW2 Labour government.

Better link with the original piece as well as the critique.

www.ft.com/content/fbc55e2c-6757-4270-af87-88fd39425cb9
www.ft.com/content/e910f8e4-013f-4efb-87a1-770354341d37
There’s no doubt the economic outlook Starmer will inherit is far worse than Blair did, but the ideas are sound and he has probably at least a year to fine tune it.
Just a reminder though, this thread is supposed to be about ‘ Is there still a Conservative Party’, so time would be better spent on why the inheritance for Starmer will be so bleak.

Just to interrupt you all slagging each other off I came across this the alternative to The Tories

It’s a free link from the FT Starmers ideas on economics it takes a few seconds to load quite interesting

email.newsletters.ft.com/c/eJyMkcGO1DAQRL8mvjmy23a7ffABCY00Fy7AB9ju9k60M8mQOCD-HrFa4Mr5VZWeVK0Medn2n3mVH8ddxpBdce7Vpw5KskVCgBAhKXmU5X7lnHxxVlrV3hBpzxF0jU50J27gnYSaQN2ySxhiqpjAoJgSpETvEwrFBLUGUUsGA86gIQvGAMzBcGQKyTnvjVQzefNP6pj7mNv2UPd8G-N5TO7DBJcJLtv6Tia4uE-LXOic3OVddnIf_0d3Ajzk5SHreKtEKNyiAe0wie7NibY1sG6l1cA2OSaj7ssxrpzRVkNYCVMwghABsLPBop77xmcb-XiW_VXtmcv3hefjsYzb5E27L71vO_-Gc9vm81Xt8u2Ut02RWLvzVpNNUfsSvKZoRQcXpIbSpKL8iQt_lpW_LI-_XyGAGntZj9LGsq1XzpYEk4GiA8euvbNFEzevXYweKpRgK6jzkP3ruXCOvaCYhNoSBO17J11tAV3JeWJoIRH8CgAA__-NMKd5

Like many things in our once great country, Conservatism has eroded, to become disfunctional and totally lacking in any sort of positive leadership. And Boris is not it.

A Zionist believes in the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland . That would include many who disagree with the current Israeli government
I’m English. I loathe my government.

Thats do sad they would do that Annie. They are Zionists they do not condem what Isreal government are doing to the Palestinians Roger Walters video I posted link to shows him in Isreal seeing up close the Isreal killing murdering Palestinians A huge wall imprisoning them and a road in Palestinian territory only Jews can walk along.