Is there still a Conservative Party?

It is because they use their critical thinking skills that they are turning from the Tory party. Bribery in the form of tax cuts etc won’t cut it I’m afraid. Their critical skills are honed on the Tory performance over the past decade or so, and they are pretty appalled.

ronib

I have no way of knowing for sure but voters will be feeling much less under seige around the time of the election.
Nope I don’t fall hook line or sinker for political parties- too old to be conned.

They won’t ronib, most voters are not naive enough to fall for a few last ditch attempts to save the government’s bacon. Poll after poll is indicating that people don’t think Brexit has worked, don’t rate the government, think public services are failing, etc. etc.
it’s just the rhetoric of a dying administration.

I have no way of knowing for sure but voters will be feeling much less under seige around the time of the election.
Nope I don’t fall hook line or sinker for political parties- too old to be conned.

ronib

Ww2 well that’s one point of view. The other is that there’s a slow economic recovery with prices coming down at the pumps and a possible 2p tax cut. I imagine more ‘incentives’ will be on the table by 2024.
The war in Ukraine might be over by then which would help our economy if we haven’t been annihilated by a nuclear strike and so on. Of course, we might be
seeing the start of another pandemic or war …. I am sorry if the good folk of Guildford, Goldalming and Horsham have lost their critical thinking skills but it’s probably caused by drinking too much coffee!

Is that a point of view or a case of swallowing the government rhetoric hook line and sinker?
It is true that diesel prices have come down, but they were artificially inflated for months for no good reason other than profits to the oil companies.

Ww2 well that’s one point of view. The other is that there’s a slow economic recovery with prices coming down at the pumps and a possible 2p tax cut. I imagine more ‘incentives’ will be on the table by 2024.
The war in Ukraine might be over by then which would help our economy if we haven’t been annihilated by a nuclear strike and so on. Of course, we might be
seeing the start of another pandemic or war …. I am sorry if the good folk of Guildford, Goldalming and Horsham have lost their critical thinking skills but it’s probably caused by drinking too much coffee!

I think that the answer to the question in the OP is to look at what has always been solid Tory territory and understand what is happening in places like Guildford, Godalming and Horsham and villages like Steyning in Sussex.

The population in these charming towns have always identified with the conservative values, and these people are generally “pretty centrist, pretty moderate, very tolerant, pro-European, pretty compassionate and reasonable and very well educated” ( Follows)
This more or less sums up my children’s neighbours and friends.

But what they have been witness to is the Tory party moving more and more right wing as well as tearing the country apart in the name of a disastrous Brexit - for which most of them did not vote. The culture wars are not playing out well either, particularly with my grandchildren’s age group, and I suspect that they will never contemplate voting Tory as the political party stands at present.
I’m not sure that the Tories will ever get their vote.

Diamond thanks - your post applies to me. There are a lot of us

I too left the party and rejoined when Starmer became leader.

Anniebach

When Labour members were campaigning to remain, come the televised leaders debate Corbyn went on holiday

Corbyn was never pro-EU. He voted against everything to do with them, except when he was on holiday.🙄

I left the Labour party, after many years, when he was leader, and only rejoined when Starmer got the role.

As for Owen Jones - he's one of the reasons I don't bother with the Guardian any more.

Chocolatelovinggran

Maybee - I'm proud to be called a champagne socialist. I want everyone to have the best things in life. Happy to settle for Cava for everyone if that's more affordable.

Same here. I’ve worked hard, got savings and if I want to share a bottle of champagne as we toast my lovely husband, we will

Thanks Casdon for the link. It confirms what many of us feel, that the right is on the rise. The current crop of influential Tory mp’s and ministers are many miles away from people like Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart for example.
I’m a Starmer supporter, didn’t respect or admire Corbyn as leader tho of course the core principles were good. I’m not in the least surprised Labour lost so badly but look where we are now.
Public services including our nhs devastated. Here’s hoping the LP does well enough, that tactical voting and co-operation between Labour, LibDem, green etc get these barstewards out next year.

Maybee - I'm proud to be called a champagne socialist. I want everyone to have the best things in life. Happy to settle for Cava for everyone if that's more affordable.

Freya5

Katie59

“they became the SELFSERVATIVES ,only interested in themselves and their like “

Of course the majority of voters are self serving, they will vote for what benefits them, only a minority vote for principles.

The Tory party has a large block of right wing extremists that holds the moderates to ransom, current problems stem from the ERG forcing Cameron to commit to a Brexit referendum.
They would never have got the majority they have without the chaos around leaving the EU.

"Right wing extremists", oh dear. Pathetic.

Why is it pathetic? It seems an accurate description of some of the most recent Conservative actions and beliefs of some of the party's MPs.

How would you describe the lurch to the right and away from the consensus of public opinion?

MayBee70

Freya5

Katie59

“they became the SELFSERVATIVES ,only interested in themselves and their like “

Of course the majority of voters are self serving, they will vote for what benefits them, only a minority vote for principles.

The Tory party has a large block of right wing extremists that holds the moderates to ransom, current problems stem from the ERG forcing Cameron to commit to a Brexit referendum.
They would never have got the majority they have without the chaos around leaving the EU.

"Right wing extremists", oh dear. Pathetic.

I think that even ex Conservative MP’s are saying that the Party is now controlled by the far right. This isn’t scaremongering.

Time for the stragglers to wake up and smell the coffee.
www.opendemocracy.net/en/far-right-mainstream-conspiracy-theory-uk/

Freya5

Katie59

“they became the SELFSERVATIVES ,only interested in themselves and their like “

Of course the majority of voters are self serving, they will vote for what benefits them, only a minority vote for principles.

The Tory party has a large block of right wing extremists that holds the moderates to ransom, current problems stem from the ERG forcing Cameron to commit to a Brexit referendum.
They would never have got the majority they have without the chaos around leaving the EU.

"Right wing extremists", oh dear. Pathetic.

I think that even ex Conservative MP’s are saying that the Party is now controlled by the far right. This isn’t scaremongering.

Katie59

“they became the SELFSERVATIVES ,only interested in themselves and their like “

Of course the majority of voters are self serving, they will vote for what benefits them, only a minority vote for principles.

The Tory party has a large block of right wing extremists that holds the moderates to ransom, current problems stem from the ERG forcing Cameron to commit to a Brexit referendum.
They would never have got the majority they have without the chaos around leaving the EU.

"Right wing extremists", oh dear. Pathetic.

"While ever the parties are hidebound by the 'household economy' myth, nothing is going to improve."

You are absolutely right about that MaizieD both the main parties peddle that line.

To me, the LibDems combine Conservative economics with Labours social values. Isn’t that what a middle of the road party should be?

I'm afraid that 'conservatives economics' is what is making the UK poorer and more unequal.

When I think of Vince Cable selling off Royal Mail for a pittance; in fact when I think of it being sold at all, it makes me very worried about a LibDem version of economics.

Though, TBH, Labour is no better in its economic thought.

While ever the parties are hidebound by the 'household economy' myth, nothing is going to improve.

The centre is moving to the right though, so who could agree what a centre party would look like.

GrannyGravy13

MayBee70

But isn’t that what the LibDems have always been?

Therein lies the problem, I have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stand for.

Well, that’s the problem isn’t it. People want things to be black or white but most things in life have grey areas. To me, the LibDems combine Conservative economics with Labours social values. Isn’t that what a middle of the road party should be? I personally think that that’s where Keir is taking the Labour Party. I’m not sure that the working class vote for a party that stands for them because most working class people have higher aspirations. The people that need the most help are the unemployed, the sick. I don’t see how Conservative policy of lowering tax helps them. The guy that helps maintain my house laughs at people like me who he calls champagne socialists. The Conservative Party could have had Rory Stewart as leader and even I would have voted for him.

MayBee70

But isn’t that what the LibDems have always been?

Therein lies the problem, I have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stand for.

But isn’t that what the LibDems have always been?

A true party of the centre, that’s what I would like. Dream on Maddy.

NanaDana I second your dream…

Oh how I wish that the extreme right of Conservative and the extreme left of Labour would just leave their respective parties and set up new ones. They could even use moderate names to describe themselves in order to disguise their true personae.. e.g. The Slightly Fascist Party (SFP), and the Almost Stalinist Party (ASP). I don't feel it would fool anyone, but their core voters could still kid themselves that they are in favour of democracy and freedom. Perhaps we would then get what I suspect many have been crying out for for decades.. a Government not handicapped by dogma, which could then tread a centrist path which would be welcomed by many, and which would actually allow them to just get on with the business of truly serving the people. We can all dream..