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Public Accounts Committee and government chaos

(11 Posts)
ronib Wed 07-Jun-23 21:32:15

Casdon another comment online suggested that senior officials were not at all in favour of Brexit so that might account for a lot of frustration and friction between ministers and civil servants.
With civil servants at the highest numbers, and increasing chaos in the Uk does not seem to be going according to plan? I have no evidence of unrealistic demands placed on civil servants by ministers although the upheaval caused by the pandemic, Brexit and the war in Ukraine etc must have made for many difficulties. Hopefully moving towards resolutions?

Casdon Wed 07-Jun-23 20:29:33

I think that fundamentally what matters to employees in any line of business is belueving that they are able to contribute to improving that particular service, and that their contribution is valued by their bosses and fellow employees. Once the boss/employee relationship has deteriorated to the level it seems to have done there’s lack of trust which is very difficult indeed to rebuild.
Changes in management at the highest levels of the Civil Service are not helpful in making staff feel valued, the pay dispute, Rees-Mogg’s constant undermining, critical reports and a blame culture will make it almost impossible for Sunak to rebuild any bridges now.
If I’m honest I think your husband needs to give his head a wobble if he thinks reducing the number of civil servants will in any way improve the government of the country - it’s already chaos with high turnover because of the increasingly unrealistic demands placed on them by ministers.

ronib Wed 07-Jun-23 20:11:28

Casdon one idea online was that the advice given to ministers by civil servants should be put in the public domain. Frankly that is bonkers as there will be security issues etc.
My husband suggests how about reducing the number of civil servants and also stop the increasing encroachment of government on the lives of the population?
Dunno confused

ronib Wed 07-Jun-23 18:59:40

Casdon okay that’s interesting too. Maybe the government under Rishi Sunak will be more measured than the previous one? There’s a breakdown in the traditional understanding of how ministers and senior civil servants work together - I still think there’s a case for improving the technical side but I don’t see how the inter personal/political problems can be solved. Any ideas?

Casdon Wed 07-Jun-23 18:44:30

ronib

Well Casdon I don’t think current government ministers are responsible for the way the Civil Service operates in 2023 - I think it’s up to the Civil Service to recognise the deficiencies in their services?
I believe that Michael Heseltine probably thought that CCTA was redundant. So I looked on the Wiki and saw that CCTA had been added on to four areas of government. I have no clue how these offshoots are performing but the PAC does seem to suggest that they are major shortcomings.
Can’t be more helpful…

You’ll find it helpful to read this ronib, it’s a small part of the jigsaw in explaining why the current government is impacting on the performance of the civil service.
www.civilservant.org.uk/information-dismissal-permanent_secretaries.html#:~:text=It%20is%20a%20firm%20rule,Boris%20Johnson%20as%20Prime%20Minister).

ronib Wed 07-Jun-23 18:13:37

Typo there are

ronib Wed 07-Jun-23 18:10:07

Well Casdon I don’t think current government ministers are responsible for the way the Civil Service operates in 2023 - I think it’s up to the Civil Service to recognise the deficiencies in their services?
I believe that Michael Heseltine probably thought that CCTA was redundant. So I looked on the Wiki and saw that CCTA had been added on to four areas of government. I have no clue how these offshoots are performing but the PAC does seem to suggest that they are major shortcomings.
Can’t be more helpful…

Casdon Wed 07-Jun-23 17:54:56

ronib

MaizieD I think that there are structural problems in the way the Civil Service is organised and even if we had the most exceptional government (improbable I know) that there are serious obstacles in delivering policies.
For example, I think that the Oxbridge influenced top administration is not at all technologically minded. In around 2000 Michael Heseltine closed down CCTA and I often wonder if that was a mistake. This department had technical expertise as well as developing CRAMM which is all about risk management and assessment. Also all projects involving computers were properly put out to tender and then the installation/s were managed in-house by knowledgeable and professional CCTA staff.
Now the Civil Service is unable to attract and retain computer staff partly because I think there’s little career progression since it’s a generalist biased organisation and also because of low pay as industry pays significantly more.
So even if Ninja Turtles form the next government, the same obstacles to good service and efficient delivery remain .
(Grandsons into Ninja Turtles just now).

Give us your critique of the government’s part in the points raised by the PAC too ronib, and the extent to which you believe the ills of the civil service are down to ministerial interference. That way, we could have a balanced discussion about the issues overall?

ronib Wed 07-Jun-23 17:50:26

MaizieD I think that there are structural problems in the way the Civil Service is organised and even if we had the most exceptional government (improbable I know) that there are serious obstacles in delivering policies.
For example, I think that the Oxbridge influenced top administration is not at all technologically minded. In around 2000 Michael Heseltine closed down CCTA and I often wonder if that was a mistake. This department had technical expertise as well as developing CRAMM which is all about risk management and assessment. Also all projects involving computers were properly put out to tender and then the installation/s were managed in-house by knowledgeable and professional CCTA staff.
Now the Civil Service is unable to attract and retain computer staff partly because I think there’s little career progression since it’s a generalist biased organisation and also because of low pay as industry pays significantly more.
So even if Ninja Turtles form the next government, the same obstacles to good service and efficient delivery remain .
(Grandsons into Ninja Turtles just now).

MaizieD Wed 07-Jun-23 17:47:32

hmm

MaizieD Wed 07-Jun-23 11:48:09

The Public Accounts Committee is a parliamentary seelect committee which examines all aspects of government expenditure.

It published its annual review of government expenditure yesterday.

It's not a lengthy report, but it paints a picture of shocking government incompetence, failure to run Departments effectively and to exercise effective control of government monies.

From the opening section:

2. What needs to change
Week in, week out the Committee of Public Accounts examines individual government projects. But there are repeated problems which Whitehall must be better at addressing.

The disconnect between commissioning and delivery
This last year has seen an unprecedented turnover of ministers. Perhaps less commented on is the continuing churn in the civil service. Those involved in commissioning are rarely there long enough to see through to delivery. In my report I highlight the most glaring example – defence procurement. Defence stands out but it is not the only department with fast turnover or short serving project leaders.
We need better ownership of the whole process, and this cannot be achieved in a culture in which officials are constantly on the move. Officials also need to be properly trained to deliver each stage of the project which they are responsible for. As one frustrated minister said to me recently: “I cannot believe that I am dealing with a string of gentleman amateurs on such important and complex programmes.”

Technical capabilities

Despite all the rhetoric we still do not have the level of technical capability for our digital world. We have seen progress regarding financial qualification, but we still have a mountain to climb when it comes to securing digital and project management skills in Whitehall. Government is also competing with employers around the world keen to attract skilled digital specialists. Rules on Whitehall salaries can frustrate the delivery of critical major projects.

Fail fast

The mantra of the technology world is fail fast – a culture where error can be quickly acknowledged and rectified, where we learn from our mistakes. Whitehall too often clings to projects which have failed. I still see too much optimism bias in operation and the movement of staff means that this optimism is sometimes inherited by later programme leads who don’t have a project overview.

Better understanding of risk

Benjamin Franklin famously said the only two certain things in life were death and taxes. For government we might add that it is certain that it will need to deal with uncertainty. No one could predict the Covid-19 pandemic, but we could have been better prepared.
The scale of the losses incurred in a panic response on issues such as PPE procurement are documented in this report. We need to learn the lesson that there is always unpredictability.
The military mantra is that no plan survives the battle, but never go into battle without a plan. Put simply we were unprepared. Whitehall is resistant to creating a Chief Risk Officer. We need to see a step change in Whitehall and among politicians about the value for spending to mitigate or be prepared for risk. Optimism bias creeps in here too – no-one thinks it will happen on their watch.
There is difference between risk and uncertainty. Risks can be calculated. Government is there to protect the citizen and is the provider or funder of last resort in uncertain times. The banking crisis in 2008, the pandemic in 2020 and the energy crisis of 2021 are examples of where the risk management is largely outside the reach of Whitehall but where Government needs to step in.
Too often the civil service is focused on the task rather than the outcome. In the discussions about policy and delivery Whitehall is still more focused on the former. There is no real incentive for policy teams to ensure outcomes.

committees.parliament.uk/publications/40191/documents/196316/default/

While the section I have quoted appears to lay much of the blame on the civil service reading the full report makes it clear that failure is as much the responsibility of ministers as it of the civil servants who have to implement their policies.

It is also notable that underfunding of departments is a key part of government failure.

I hope that people will read the whole report. It's not very long and it is eye opening.