Criminal or a Health Matter?

I wonder if the balance of her mind was disturbed while she was having unprotected sex it’s the children I feel sorry for.

You can’t say that without knowing all the circumstances Grantanow. Which we don’t.
A custodial sentence could have been avoided had she pleaded guilty straight away but she didn’t. It’s hard for her living children but if she were pardoned or given a suspended sentence now, that would set a precedent for dealing with the next woman who does such an evil, premeditated thing.

The woman has knowingly committed a criminal offence, and that has to be recognised. I don't know the background circumstances, but feel a custodial sentence is inappropriate.

As always, where is the father?

Very badly dealt with. Braverman should give her a free pardon forthwith.

It's so easy for posters to say the poor woman could have done this that or the other, as they would have done.
A prison sentence was far too draconian. It has at least highlighted the need to update the abortion laws ,as has been done in N.Ireland.

This is heartbreaking. She must have been desperate. In another age she might have resorted to throwing herself down the stairs or taken similar destructive action.

How can she be right in the head to abort a baby at 32 weeks. It’s murder, you would have the child and have it adopted. Prison is not the answer, most definitely. What was the judge thinking? she will live and know what she did for ever and how does anyone live with that? She needs urgent help and so do her children. This is a tragedy as there’s no solution.
Poor baby, mother and children.

Whatever the details it's just so terribly sad and tragic. She must have been very desperate, so scared or mentally fragile to do it. I would think a stay at a psychiatric hospital is far more appropriate than prison.

While I feel I ought to want to know more about the specifics of the case, my first thought is that she killed a viable baby with malice aforethought. It was planned, not the heat of the moment.

The baby could have been put up for adoption. Perhaps abortion has become the default procedure in modern society and adoption doesn’t feature in the mind of parents in difficulty as an alternative?

The woman deliberately deceived the BPAS in order to get the abortion pill after the 10 week gestation cut off..
The scheme "pills by post" seems a somewhat irresponsible service to me because it is open to abuse in many ways. I believe it was set up to avoid the need for medical consultations and examinations during Covid....I hope the scheme has folded and that women can receive the personal medical care which they are entitled to at a clinic.
To abort at 32/34 weeks is a crime. The woman foolishly denied the initial charge of child destruction which led to the alternative charge of administering drugs... to procure abortion". (Perhaps she was ill advised by her lawyer). Had the mother not taken mifepristone the baby could have been safely delivered. The judge said "he had to balance the woman's reproductive rights with the rights of the fetus" and I agree with his verdict.

Jackiest

Doodledog

It's a terrible case. My first reaction when I heard about it was that it must have happened in Alabama or somewhere where women's rights are given low priority, and to discover that it was here in the UK was a shock, although I do feel that we too are seeing a reining in of the achievements of feminism.

When I realised that the termination happened at 34 weeks though, I began to wonder at what that actually means to the unborn child - it would have been very viable at that point, and presumably would have an awareness of what was happening.

I really don't think that jailing her is helping anything though. Her children will suffer, she is no danger to anyone and I really think that prison should be a last resort.

I wonder if there is more to this than we know.

If feminism means the right to kill a baby at 34 weeks then I am not a supporter of feminism.

Given that you think the object of fishing competitions should be completely altered to accommodate transwomen who wish to join the female team, I don't think feminism is high on your agenda to begin with. I don't believe anyone is thinking that feminism means the right to abort a foetus at 34 weeks, but compassion for women shouldn't start and finish with feminism, whatever that means. This individual woman had specific circumstances to her situation. I will not stand in judgement without having been in her shoes. I doubt a custodial sentence was the only correct outcome, although I won't for one minute dispute she broke the law. Pity she didn't rape a female, that's often worthy of a far less custodial sentence.

We don't know enough as to her state of mind (ie no one assessed her psychiatrically at the time) tho subsequent psychiatric assessments have been sympathetic)

nor do we know pressures and relationships to the husband and children, (and the biological father) - all under their particular Covid circumstances

..... to pass some of these crushing judgements on her. .

Of course it's heartbreaking, but I really think she must have been out of her mind to do that to her own baby. She will have felt it move, and kick, and she's already had other children, so would know what was going on.

I think more information is needed as to what the circumstances were. But I would say it was a terrible thing to do, she has killed her baby. It’s not like she was a young girl. So many people want to adopt babies yet she destroyed the life of baby Lily. Babies are a blessing not a throw away commodity. Heartbreaking.

CheersMeDears

No sympathy for the woman from me. If she was savvy enough to know to order the abortion tablets at 32 weeks, why didn't she ask for them sooner?
Every sympathy for her 3 children who will be the ones who'll pay a high price for their mother's actions.
I have sympathy for her husband because she'd only just reconciled with him but failed to mention that she was carrying another man's child.
The most sympathy is for a dead baby who had no say as to whether she lived or died. RIP little one.

Good post

Would we feel as sympathetic if the baby had been born and then she killed it? It is a very difficult case not to feel horror at but at the same time I feel for her living children. I can't help thinking in this day and age in the UK, if you really don't want to be pregnant, in the normal run of things you can usually avoid it. There are circumstances where things go wrong but there has been no mention of that in the case as it has been reported.

Germanshepherdsmum

We have no information about why this woman did what she did. Had she pleaded guilty at an early stage her sentence would have been suspended. She deliberately destroyed her child. Without knowing more I cannot feel sympathy for her.

I feel exactly the same.👏🏻👏🏻

Above extract was from "The Independent" Newspaper.

I provided social work support to a maternity unit in the 1980's. There were 2 late terminations; one due to family circumstances and another for medical reasons. Both involved my arranging a meeting with the consultant, specifically to discuss terminating a pregnancy. A third was carried out elsewhere as the mother was under age and referred to another agency for further assessment. These options were not available to this woman during the pandemic. "The 1861 legislation means any woman who ends a pregnancy without obtaining legal permission from two doctors, who must agree that continuing with it would be a risk to the woman’s physical or mental health, can face up to life imprisonment. Any medical professional who delivers an abortion out of the terms of the act can face criminal punishment." (Independent This act was obviously not taken into account when the telephone assessment was carried out during the assessment.... I hope she pursues a successful appeal.

Granny23

I would have thought that this was a case where "The Balance of her mind was disturbed". It must have been or she would not have been driven to this terrible action. What she did will haunt her to her dying day, especially now that a Court of Law has labelled her as a criminal, rather than a woman driven to despair.

This is how I see it.

I also think that other women are likely to give her a bad time in jail, as they are separated from their own babies. She can't have been thinking straight to terminate a pregnancy at 34 weeks, can she? She must have been desperate, or psychotic or something. I really think she needs help rather than punishment.

And as I said upthread, I feel for the baby, too. It's a horrible case.

I would have thought that this was a case where "The Balance of her mind was disturbed". It must have been or she would not have been driven to this terrible action. What she did will haunt her to her dying day, especially now that a Court of Law has labelled her as a criminal, rather than a woman driven to despair.

She killed her baby. I’m wholly in favour of her being severely punished.

Doodledog

It's a terrible case. My first reaction when I heard about it was that it must have happened in Alabama or somewhere where women's rights are given low priority, and to discover that it was here in the UK was a shock, although I do feel that we too are seeing a reining in of the achievements of feminism.

When I realised that the termination happened at 34 weeks though, I began to wonder at what that actually means to the unborn child - it would have been very viable at that point, and presumably would have an awareness of what was happening.

I really don't think that jailing her is helping anything though. Her children will suffer, she is no danger to anyone and I really think that prison should be a last resort.

I wonder if there is more to this than we know.

If feminism means the right to kill a baby at 34 weeks then I am not a supporter of feminism.

It's a terrible case. My first reaction when I heard about it was that it must have happened in Alabama or somewhere where women's rights are given low priority, and to discover that it was here in the UK was a shock, although I do feel that we too are seeing a reining in of the achievements of feminism.

When I realised that the termination happened at 34 weeks though, I began to wonder at what that actually means to the unborn child - it would have been very viable at that point, and presumably would have an awareness of what was happening.

I really don't think that jailing her is helping anything though. Her children will suffer, she is no danger to anyone and I really think that prison should be a last resort.

I wonder if there is more to this than we know.