Riots in France

Nanterre, eh? Where it kicked off in May 1968, when I found myself on strike for the only time in my life, mercifully on the other side of Paris.

Yes. Split-second decisions. He could easily have been intent on running people down, as happened so recently in Nottingham.

Wasn't it 2111 when we had riots here which lasted several days.?

Regardless of the fact that this 17 year old youth was illegally driving a car which wasn't his, I've seen the video of the incident, and it's quite clear that he had initially stopped, 2 policeman approached the stationary car on the driver's side, one stood immediately adjacent to the driver's window, and as the youth drove slowly off, he shot him though that window at point blank range. I saw zero evidence of the youth driving the car at anyone. So yes, he was breaking the law, but most certainly didn't deserve to be summarily executed, which is what happened. It doesn't take much to spark rioting by disaffected immigrant youths in France, and as in the past, this often becomes an excuse for looting. I feel sorry for the residents of the area, and it seems crazy that the rioters are often destroying the areas where they themselves live. However, the bottom line is that what we've seen here is the horrific, unjustifiable termination of a young life... a punishment totally out of proportion to his misdemeanours.

Just watching the French news and they are talking about how young many of the rioters are. Thirteen and fourteen year olds amongst those arrested.

It is only recently that there was a tragic incident in Nottingham which was the subject of much discussion on here. A vehicle was also used as a weapon in that case and it was initially thought that it could be a terrorist attack. The police managed to arrest the alleged perpetrator quickly and without further loss of life.

Our police are far from perfect but I believe they are second to none in handling violent and dangerous offenders and deserve our support for being prepared to risk their own lives in the process. I believe the French police officer’s action was vastly disproportionate and do not believe this young man posed any immediate danger to anyone. I am prepared to be corrected if there is evidence to the contrary (and I don’t mean evidence gleaned from news reports and videos online, but from a proper investigation).

There are plenty of opportunities to shoot someone in a non lethal place GSM whether they are sitting or not and it’s not just about this case but look at all the deaths in US when they could have shot in arm/ leg / foot or better still tasered but instead straight through the heart or head
Exactly Nightowl our police have a lot of faults especially at this moment but at least they don’t try to kill everyone before asking questions

NanaDana

Regardless of the fact that this 17 year old youth was illegally driving a car which wasn't his, I've seen the video of the incident, and it's quite clear that he had initially stopped, 2 policeman approached the stationary car on the driver's side, one stood immediately adjacent to the driver's window, and as the youth drove slowly off, he shot him though that window at point blank range. I saw zero evidence of the youth driving the car at anyone. So yes, he was breaking the law, but most certainly didn't deserve to be summarily executed, which is what happened. It doesn't take much to spark rioting by disaffected immigrant youths in France, and as in the past, this often becomes an excuse for looting. I feel sorry for the residents of the area, and it seems crazy that the rioters are often destroying the areas where they themselves live. However, the bottom line is that what we've seen here is the horrific, unjustifiable termination of a young life... a punishment totally out of proportion to his misdemeanours.

This!

I would have thought shooting at the tyres would have been the least dangerous method to stop the car but I am not in the police force dealing with possible terrorists.

The police were blamed recently in Ireland for following, not chasing, two boys riding one electric bike; the boys sped away through a lane closed by bollards where the car could not follow; out of sight of the car they crashed and were killed. I believe rioting followed that when it was clearly the boys' fault for riding dangerously.

The photographs taken at the Sarah Everard vigil show what happened when the peaceful vigil was deliberately turned into a protest. Contrast that with the dignified behaviour of the crowds at the vigils for the three people murdered in Nottingham.

Germanshepherdsmum

The use of a vehicle as a weapon has become popular with terrorists. The police can’t risk that happening.

C'mon, they had absolutely no evidence he was a terrorist!

Better to wait for the evidence in the form of multiple deaths perhaps?

The police could surely have shot a couple of the car tyres instead? He wouldn’t have been going anywhere then.

Apologies eazybee just seen you’d already said what I was thinking.

Very different here, you get a youth riding an ebike and quite possibly up to mischief. Not a legal pedelec bike but a souped-up moped type, that can go fast and is illegal and easy to build from china kits added to a bicycle

So the youth speeds up when he sees police and police pull back, the youth crashes and is killed and immediately the police are blamed

We ought to be rioting here, in support of the uk police, who appeared to have done the right thing

eazybee. I just read your post. One of those ebikes, ridden illegally by an adult, passed me yesterday whizzing down a lane. I have a very good legal pedelec and the maximum I can do with pedal assist is 15 mph.

I feel sorry for the mother who naturally is very upset, but can’t help thinking that this wouldn’t have happened if she’d brought up her son to respect the law.

As I said before, I feel very sorry for the mother, but she should have brought her son up to respect the law.

Maddyone you've twice now referred to the mother and her child-rearing skills - how do you know that she didn't bring up her son to respect the law?

As we all know, the best brought up children can get in with the wrong crowd and end up in trouble.

Indeed the immediate past president of France, Sarkozy, is currently electronically tagged! Was his mother lacking?

eazybee

I would have thought shooting at the tyres would have been the least dangerous method to stop the car but I am not in the police force dealing with possible terrorists.

The police were blamed recently in Ireland for following, not chasing, two boys riding one electric bike; the boys sped away through a lane closed by bollards where the car could not follow; out of sight of the car they crashed and were killed. I believe rioting followed that when it was clearly the boys' fault for riding dangerously.

The photographs taken at the Sarah Everard vigil show what happened when the peaceful vigil was deliberately turned into a protest. Contrast that with the dignified behaviour of the crowds at the vigils for the three people murdered in Nottingham.

The photographs taken at the Sarah Everard vigil show what happened when the peaceful vigil was deliberately turned into a protest. Contrast that with the dignified behaviour of the crowds at the vigils for the three people murdered in Nottingham.

Peaceful protest is not illegal, even if it begins as a vigil and is deliberately turned into a protest.

The difference between the vigil in Nottingham and the Sarah Everard vigil is that Sarah was murdered by a police officer - because she obeyed the law.

Contrast the heavy-handedness of the attending officers at the protest for Sarah, and the way the force sometimes appear to stand by while the environmental protesters glue themselves to the road, etc, causing major disruption to rush-hour traffic and people... which I don't believe was the case at the Sarah Everard protest.

And what has emerged since the murder of Sarah shows some officers in a very bad light - se we are right to question their actions and what motivates them.

I've no grudge against the police in principle, they do a dangerous and sometimes pretty tough job - but, they are still accountable.

Freya5 - regarding the 'suspected terrorist' - you weren't referring to Jean Charles de Menezes, by any chance? It turned out that he wasn't actually running away from the police but walking to the underground platform.

I know, but police are not mind readers. If his bag had held a bomb and it had exploded they'd be blamed. They have to make very serious split second decisions. I wouldn't like their job.

All préfectures across France have been asked to stop all public transport by 9pm French time tonight.

…I……do not believe this young man posed any immediate danger to anyone…….

And you know that? No, you don’t!
He was breaking the law. He might have been a terrorist. We don’t know.

Riverwalk if my children had broken the law by driving illegally, I’d think I’d done something very wrong in the way I brought them up and the values I instilled into them. I’m sorry you disagree, but in my opinion, properly brought up children don’t go out and drive illegally in rented cars (how did he come to be in possession of a rented car anyway?) and properly brought up children respect the law. So I do feel sorry for the mother, but she should have made sure her child grew up to respect the law. The sad fact is, she didn’t.

I don't know about his mother's parenting skills, but I think I read he had never known his father, which sadly must have had some bearing. He was on the wrong side of the law, and not just on this occasion, believe.
I'm no expert, but I think it goes a lot deeper than that. France has always had problems integrating Algerians, Arabs, and Black people because it wants to do it on its own terms. France tends to marginalise and abandon them in segregated places, where discontent and distrust breeds. It's no wonder they find it impossible to integrate into regular French society, and all respect for authority, particularly for the police, is non existent.

Joseann

I don't know about his mother's parenting skills, but I think I read he had never known his father, which sadly must have had some bearing. He was on the wrong side of the law, and not just on this occasion, believe.
I'm no expert, but I think it goes a lot deeper than that. France has always had problems integrating Algerians, Arabs, and Black people because it wants to do it on its own terms. France tends to marginalise and abandon them in segregated places, where discontent and distrust breeds. It's no wonder they find it impossible to integrate into regular French society, and all respect for authority, particularly for the police, is non existent.

France has always had problems integrating Algerians, Arabs, and Black people because it wants to do it on its own terms.

Integration is a complex matter - not just in France - and probably deserves a separate thread.

France is proud - and protective - of its identity I think. How do you go about integrating people from different cultures, especially if some of the convictions of those cultures are diametrically opposed to your own? Look at the problems created by the 'burkini' ban.

I don't think France marginalises or abandons immigrants any more than other countries. Those who migrate for economic reasons tend to be ghettoised in areas where accommodation is cheaper - along with the impoverished natives of the country. Maybe it's poverty and lack of opportunities that also contribute to the unrest. Maybe the native French who lead frugal and penurious lives also feel alienated from the culture of their own nation?

As for the question of whether the mother brought up her child to respect the law... who knows? I think the assumption that if she had, he wouldn't have gone astray is questionable. There is absolutely no guarantee that your child, once in adulthood, will adhere to the principles he / she was raised under. At all levels of society, the offspring of 'good' parents do sometimes go rogue. My late ex and I had to secretly follow my son on a couple of occasions to discover that he was mixing with the 'wrong' crowd. If we hadn't done that, we'd never have known that he was sometimes breaking the law. It was only petty law-breaking - but who knows where it might have led had we not sleuthed and discovered what he was up to. We were condemned for it by some of our friends, but my son, now in his 50s with sons of his own, is glad that we did what we did because, looking back, he says he realises how impressionable he was as an 17 / 18 year old.

Of course you did Divkens and that shows you were not only good and concerned parents, but you acted on your instincts and were able to prevent a worse situation from developing. Of course it’s more difficult for a single mother, perhaps especially from a different culture that diminishes women, but it does come down to parenting in the end. Whether over entitled middle class indulged children or children who were inadequately parented by single parents or parents who don’t know how to cope with their children, it always comes down to parenting. It’s not a popular opinion, but I’m absolutely sure that this the basic problem.