Going back into Europe

You are still completely able to run your economy though, arent you Maizie? The only reason Greece had group views imposed upon it was because they needed to borrow and borrow a great deal.

Even if you borrow to buy a home the lenders may dictate certain works are done, etc. As far as I am aware that's the only time it happens in the EU.

Dinahmo

I don't understand why people are so against losing sterling.Apparently there are children now who have never seen coins or notes because plastic is increasingly being used. So once the actual coins and bank notes disappear does it matter?

The reason for not losing sterling is that at present the government has complete control of our currency. It is free to issue as much as it wants and free to sell its treasury bonds to finance some of its outgoings ( what folks popularly call 'borrowing). It loses this freedom once it becomes part of a cross state currency controlled by the EU Central Bank.

There is also the danger of having an economic 'orthodoxy' imposed on us, as Greece had austerity imposed on it. The reasoning behind 'austerity' is just a theory promulgated by a particular branch of economic thought. It is not an economic fact.

In fact, we know all about austerity, having had it imposed by the tories since they took power in 2010. We are living with its results right now. But we have the power to change direction without having to comply with any ECB imposed 'rules'.

At a day to day level in the eurozone the euro is a wonderful thing, no worrying about foreign exchange if you move from country to country, and it does the job of buying and selling within the eurozone absolutely fine. But being dependant on it takes away a country's monetary independence. That is truly one sovereignty we should never relinquish.

Dinahmo

I don't understand why people are so against losing sterling.Apparently there are children now who have never seen coins or notes because plastic is increasingly being used. So once the actual coins and bank notes disappear does it matter?

Our fiduciary system is based, now, on a belief in our economy rather than how much gold we had stored up. If we adopted the Euro, its value would not only depend on our economy but the group of economies.

I think some people were afraid the value would be brought down by a few economies. However, (I'm happy for those with knowledge in this area to explain how correct or otherwise this is), my thinking is that it would average so it would drop less than the "worst" and bounce up less than the "best". This seems to be how the USA works. There is one caveat. Each country would still be as attractive to investors as its goverment makes it.

So my (untutored) thoughts are that people are less worried about "losing Stirling" than they are about a shared currency, even though that currency should/could be more stable.

Grantanow

Let's just be clear about EU lawmaking. The Commission proposes Directives which are discussed by the EU Parliament (which is largely a talking shop) and the Council of Ministers which decides on them. If the Directive is approved each EU country makes it a law approved by its own Parliament. The Commission has no decision making power. When the UK was a member state it sent Ministers and PMs to the Council and for the most part the Directives approved were approved by UK Ministers. It is simply untrue that the UK was 'ruled' from Brussels or by the Commission or by foreigners. Nor is it true that the Commission can take away the voting rights of member states as claimed by some. Only the Council can do that after a lengthy process. The claim that the EU is undemocratic is nonsense. The Council is made up of Ministers of the member states who are in turn representing national governments elected by their respective populations. The notion that Brussels bureaucrats ruled the UK is total rubbish.

I certainly agree that we were not "ruled" by Brussels. That was simply lazy right-wing rhetoric. I am always surprised to see it repeated all these years later.

However, that laziness was also on show in how, latterly, our government/s worked. They were still elected to run the country but seemed to sit back and do little.

I don't understand why people are so against losing sterling.Apparently there are children now who have never seen coins or notes because plastic is increasingly being used. So once the actual coins and bank notes disappear does it matter?

Trurider1

Ah, teh Rejoiners DREAM and LIES. The Pound never collapsewd against the Dollar and in fact appreciated against the Dollar whilst the EURo collapsed to Parity. The Eurozone is in RECESSION but not the UK. We saved Billions by not being in the EU and Our food Inflation is LOWER than the E.U. Only a tiny Minority want to rejoin the E.U.

Eh!

I can remember when £1 bought $2.40. It was the same for many years. We were in the US at the time of Trump's election as president. At that time sterling and dollars were at par.How the mighty sterling had fallen.

FannyCornforth

Nanna8 I think that DaisyAnne means that Wikipedia no longer accepts The Daily Mail as a source

I did Fanny. Did I miss that out? My apologies if that was the case.

Nanna8 I think that DaisyAnne means that Wikipedia no longer accepts The Daily Mail as a source

Hate to say it but the Daily Mail certainly still featured on Wikipedia when I looked just now. Just a normal entry. I think most newspapers lie, no difference except that one lies from a right wing perspective. I wouldn’t take the word of any of them, personally.

old could

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

Well, well ...

“EU laws which banks have been accused of using to close customers’ accounts over their political views are expected to be scrapped under plans being considered by ministers.”

Source: today’s Telegraph.

I am sorry but The telegraph is incorrect (unsurprisingly) he rules relating to PEPs bank accounts etc are set by the FAFT - the international overseer of money laundering, fraud etc,

I assume that the government isn’t proposing to leave that as well? Although nothing would surprise me.

I do wonder why people still quote these newspapers. I know the Mail is now not acceptable on Wikipedia as they see it as an 'unreliable' source but all newspapers comments need checking and checking again.

TiggyW

I’d like to see actual documented proof that we would be better off in the EU - that and proportional representation at the next election.

You old do some research yourself. A little bit of homework.

Let's just be clear about EU lawmaking. The Commission proposes Directives which are discussed by the EU Parliament (which is largely a talking shop) and the Council of Ministers which decides on them. If the Directive is approved each EU country makes it a law approved by its own Parliament. The Commission has no decision making power. When the UK was a member state it sent Ministers and PMs to the Council and for the most part the Directives approved were approved by UK Ministers. It is simply untrue that the UK was 'ruled' from Brussels or by the Commission or by foreigners. Nor is it true that the Commission can take away the voting rights of member states as claimed by some. Only the Council can do that after a lengthy process. The claim that the EU is undemocratic is nonsense. The Council is made up of Ministers of the member states who are in turn representing national governments elected by their respective populations. The notion that Brussels bureaucrats ruled the UK is total rubbish.

Care not Vare first line.

Until long term plans for NHS and Vare are in place we must hold doors open to fill vacancies.
Must because they are needed now.
Must because as we age we really feel our unmet needs
Must because many of us have dear family in crisis needing care.

I truly believe on these occupations we need to lower the income threshold as an emergency.

Both parties now have long term plans for workforce expansion but these are 15 year plans and certainly nothing of consequence for 5 years.

Urmstongran

Well, well ...

“EU laws which banks have been accused of using to close customers’ accounts over their political views are expected to be scrapped under plans being considered by ministers.”

Source: today’s Telegraph.

I am sorry but The telegraph is incorrect (unsurprisingly) he rules relating to PEPs bank accounts etc are set by the FAFT - the international overseer of money laundering, fraud etc,

I assume that the government isn’t proposing to leave that as well? Although nothing would surprise me.

MerylStreep

^keep in mind it’s an economic club^
It was until the Maastricht treaty was signed: then it turned political.

That is how I feel/felt 👍🏻

Slight side swipe: we never left Europe. I do wish people would not equate the EU with Europe as a whole. Some people will probably groan about this comment but preciseness does matter. There are millions of Europeans living in European countries that are not part of the EU.

Well said pjcpjc77!

We won’t rejoin any time soon. We’d lose so much including the £. We’re still paying off the EU but once that’s done we’ll be better off financially.

Pjcpjc77

On the balance of probabilities of this happening, and by the way I voted to stay in, I would certainly show extreme caution no matter who got us back into the EU.
We all have to remember the perfect storm post EU nobody could have predicted the Pandemic and the millions of lives it took, and I certainly don't think whoever was leading whatever party at that time would have got it all correct. We should concentrate on how our health service had been decimated not just by this government but previous one's too.
We have far more urgent issues to be addressed than the EU and a possible return.

The NHS is not being helped by the inability to recruit staff after the government ended freedom of movement for workers

Trurider1

Ah, teh Rejoiners DREAM and LIES. The Pound never collapsewd against the Dollar and in fact appreciated against the Dollar whilst the EURo collapsed to Parity. The Eurozone is in RECESSION but not the UK. We saved Billions by not being in the EU and Our food Inflation is LOWER than the E.U. Only a tiny Minority want to rejoin the E.U.

Food inflation is currently higher in the UK than the EU - although there may be a few individual countries with higher levels
www.bbc.com/news/business-65962497

The "real" inflation figure in the UK is a bit distorted though because of the way supermarket contracts work in Britain. Remember earlier in the year when there were no tomatoes or peppers in the shops in the UK - because there was a shortage - other EU countries did not have empty shelves because the price was allowed to rise temporarily and is now falling again.

Maremia

YES, rejoin as soon as we can and no, I am under no obligation to give sensible reasons why I feel so, because BREXIT was won on lies, dog-whistle slogans, and industrial scale bombardment from Prigozhin's troll factories.

🙂

YES, rejoin as soon as we can and no, I am under no obligation to give sensible reasons why I feel so, because BREXIT was won on lies, dog-whistle slogans, and industrial scale bombardment from Prigozhin's troll factories.

Whitewavemark2

Honestly I’m not sure why the brexiters are in such a panic.

We are not going to rejoin very soon, and probably not in our lifetimes - if you are as old as me☺️, but I suspect there will be closer working - it is inevitable - this government has already started the ball rolling and Tory MPs are calling for closer working.

It is no big deal - the only difference you will notice are cheaper prices and full shelves together with jit back again which can only be good.

I agree. The tone seems a bit anachronistic. I thought we had moved on from there.

Mind you I don’t think that the next generation will tolerate brexit and will almost certainly rejoining asap