Decriminalising drug taking

Mollygo’s link to the Washington Post article makes grim reading . Looks like Portugal will be having a rethink… overdose rates have almost doubled in Lisbon from 2019 to 2023. In Porto the collection of drug related rubbish has increased 24 percent and in one neighbourhood the drug equipment issued by the state litters the pavements outside a school. You can read more in the article. Don’t know what the answer is. But obviously decriminalisation is not the easy solution some may think

paddyann54, I can assure you that we most certainly do have 'county lines' operating here in Scotland. I have two serving police officers in the family, one of whom deals with this on an almost daily basis. I was actually quite shocked when he told me this, as I didn't think it was up here yet - but it most definitely is.

If they’re already using shoplifting and prostitution to support their habit, which many of them do . . .

Mollygo

I agree about providing needle exchanges.

It would stop a huge amount of crime associated with drug taking including shop lifting and prostitution.
How would it do that?
Where are they going to get drugs from?
Are they going to be on prescription from on the NHS? Prescriptions are free in Scotland, so that would be good news for the drug users up there.
Prescriptions are per item in England
Presumably prescriptions would be limited to a ‘suitable amount’ per week, to avoid people obtaining them legally on prescription and selling them on.

Those unable to get drugs on prescription (at enormous cost to an already struggling NHS) would presumably still use the means of funding they use now.

Drug users can (and some do) hold down jobs. However arrest and prosecution for possession leads almost inevitably to a prison sentence, which means they lose their job and, with a criminal record, are unlikely to find a new one. They then slip into prostitution or shop-lifting to fund their habit. If they could retain their job they would be less likely to do this.

The United Kingdom needs a unified drug policy across all nations otherwise folks will just pop into whatever nation has the least rules and score their drug of choice.

Police,amulance and fire brigade already carry Naxolone with them to help prevent death by OD WE are limited BY WESTMINSTER Visgirl and its an issue we need to solve .Giving people methodone is just swapping one drug for another and solves nothing .The attitude here appears to be if it cant solve ALL the problems its not worth stopping any ..so no change .We dont have "country line" issues as far as I'm told by police friends ..who wholeheartedly approve of these reforms.
But HEY if England isn't interested in starting reforms we have no chance until we gain our Independence The problem here is our NEIGHBOURS think they're our masters and Scots youngsters dont count in their world!!

I agree about providing needle exchanges.

It would stop a huge amount of crime associated with drug taking including shop lifting and prostitution.
How would it do that?
Where are they going to get drugs from?
Are they going to be on prescription from on the NHS? Prescriptions are free in Scotland, so that would be good news for the drug users up there.
Prescriptions are per item in England
Presumably prescriptions would be limited to a ‘suitable amount’ per week, to avoid people obtaining them legally on prescription and selling them on.

Those unable to get drugs on prescription (at enormous cost to an already struggling NHS) would presumably still use the means of funding they use now.

I was listening to something on the radio where they have testing on festival sites so make sure the drugs being taken are safe, which sounded like a good idea.

The issues with cannabis are to do with skunk and how strong it is. I think growing a nice plant at home for consumption is a completely different kettle of fish

It's a funny situation. One of the biggest causes of anti-social behaviour is the drug alcohol, but its distribution is legal (with licensing laws) and companies make huge profits from its sale. But no one would castigate the breweries.
Decriminalising drugs would make the user safer and less of a nuisance socially. Providing proper facilities and needle exchanges would stop children finding discarded needles in their play park, or seeing anyone shooting up on the swings. It would stop a huge amount of crime associated with drug taking including shop lifting and prostitution.
A prison sentence for a drug user is totally inappropriate anyway . More drugs are available in prison than out , so the addict will be worse when he comes out than when he went in.

Iam64

This is not a simplistic one sided debate. Decriminalisation has benefits in avoiding criminalising youngsters. However,it won’t stop the ocg’s

Portugal's prevalence of high-risk opioid use is higher than Germany's, but lower than that of France and Italy. But even proponents of decriminalization here admit that something is going wrong. Overdose rates have hit 12-year highs and almost doubled in Lisbon from 2019 to 2023.
We saw users injecting in when were in Lisbon in April and we weren’t in back alleys either.
This link talks about concerns.

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-drugs-decriminalization-heroin-crack/#

So the lasted bright idea from the SNP, sneaked in without consultation or a vote and announced after Holyrood rose.
The last 16 years under the SNP have failed to stop the drug problem. When they came to power they had 353 rehab beds with 445 annual drug deaths 10 yrs later in their admin 70 rehab beds and around 1000 deaths.
With Methadone to treat drug addiction causing a 1/3 of these deaths.
Portugal might have implemented this but they are seeing it rise now.
The people who use drugs and thier families lives are destroyed, this will just make it worse.

The next annual numbers are out soon going to be interesting.

Iam64

This is not a simplistic one sided debate. Decriminalisation has benefits in avoiding criminalising youngsters. However,it won’t stop the ocg’s

I agree Iam64 which is one of the reasons I am so conflicted.

This is not a simplistic one sided debate. Decriminalisation has benefits in avoiding criminalising youngsters. However,it won’t stop the ocg’s

paddyann54

Sadly retired Police Inspector Ian in my last post wont get to see this much needed reform because WESTMINSTER prefers to run things in a way thats outdated and useless .If you scrolled past the post please read it Police in Scotland are firmly onside with this.Lets get these reforms through .

twitter.com/UKLEAP/status/1677568537777393664...

How will this legislation stop our young people being sucked in to the drug world paddyanne54 ?

The criminals at the top of the pile will still need distribution networks, will still be waiting outside our schools to prey on the disenfranchised youngsters, ply them with free gear and get them working on the County Lines.

I would like to see the statistics of conviction’s against end users , there is already leeway to not prosecute those found with cannabis type drugs if they are for personal use

Sadly retired Police Inspector Ian in my last post wont get to see this much needed reform because WESTMINSTER prefers to run things in a way thats outdated and useless .If you scrolled past the post please read it Police in Scotland are firmly onside with this.Lets get these reforms through .

twitter.com/UKLEAP/status/1677568537777393664...

Good post grannygravy - I knew a 14 year old who was excluded from school with no real effective input from services. He was shot one weekend, dumped at A and E and amazed when he realised treatment hadn’t been entirely confidential

I have thought long and hard before posting on this thread.

If any new legislation leads to the arrest, conviction, incarceration and seizure of illegally gained assets of the so called drug barons who recruit vulnerable youngsters, some only 11-12 yrs old to distribute their wares (the now named County Lines)then yes I am totally for it.

As I understand it the suggestion is to legalise end users i.e. the addicts and the recreational drug takers, leaving the criminals to get richer and more of our young people dragged into the drug world which I find hard to digest.

As you can tell I am still conflicted.

Agree Iam

PLEASE WATCH THIS ,,

twitter.com/UKLEAP/status/1677568537777393664...

Well said

Hetty58, I agree alcohol causes huge problems. The uk has always had big problems with drink abuse. The Hogarth cartoons in the 17th century could be used to reflect drug/alcohol abuse now.

It isn’t just legal circles where cocaine and cannabis are frequently used, it’s throughout society.

Decriminalisation will lead to users sanitising their dependence.

Iam64, I don't think cannabis is harmless (I'm not a user, but know a few) yet, I believe, alcohol (I don't drink either) is far worse. The harm caused to others, at home or on the roads, is so often linked to drinking.

One thing I do know for certain - is that many in legal circles (judges, barristers) regularly use cocaine. The hypocrisy is astounding.

Allsorts- the suggestion is decriminalising, not legalising. It would help recreational drug users buy safely, pay taxes and avoid a criminal record.

I’m not convinced decriminalising drugs would prevent the criminal sale of drugs. But I agree the war on drugs approach isn’t preventing misery and huge profits to OCGs.

I’m also far from convinced cannabis is harmless. It’s usually smoked - very bad. It’s dangerous to developing brains and seems to raise the risk of psychosis in some people. Whilst I don’t see it directly as a gateway drug, it lowers the threshold ie, I tried that why not try xyz with my mate next time

I think it a bad idea. It leads to taking more powerful drugs. It’s mind altering that why they take it. How do you spot check for people under the influence on the road or at work. Would you like a surgeon operating on you for example if he had just taken cannabis. By legalising it you’re saying it’s harmless. I know from experience that young people progress quite quickly to other drugs. It’s just another way of moving the problem on. Living next door to users us bike, that cloying smell, the lethargic and anti social behaviour. I would move.

I haven’t smoked a lot, mostly with my friend ( now dead ) who had MS. We procured the cannabis for her.
Dinahmo
Did you know that scientists have been looking at LSD again?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4592308/