Claim that 550m refugees entered the UK since 2015...

Freya5

MerylStreep

I think the companies who manage the sewage plants might dispute that.
They are the people who have the closest estimate of the population.

Pardon, are you accusing me of lying.

If I was commenting on your post I would have started my post with your name.
It’s generally understood that posters are replying to the OP unless a posters name is used.

Was the figure of 550 million provided by Diane Abbott?...

Response to CvD66 …
To be fair Nobody knows just how many migrants have come into England ….

I’ve just realised I put ONC. It’s ONS. Office of National Statistics.

maddyone

Lyndie

In 2022, long-term immigration into the UK was an estimated 1.2 million. This is an estimated increase of 221,000 compared with 2021 (942,000). This 2021 figure has been revised upwards (from 895,000 to 942,000). This upwards revision results from methodological improvements and the inclusion of asylum seekers, who were not covered by the migration estimates published in November 2022. Please see the Section 9: Revisions to migration estimates for more information, and Section 11: Glossary for the definition of long-term immigration. This is from the ONC.

I’m at a loss as to how this can continue. Insufficient housing, pressure on medical services, insufficient doctors, nurses, and midwives, rising class sizes, increased road traffic, insufficient water as soon as we have three weeks of sunshine, crumbling infrastructure, hotels full of migrants which causes local difficulties and resentments, the need to achieve net zero. How can all these problems be solved with a government with it’s head in the sand and ignoring the problems? Legal or illegal immigration, the huge increases in population is causing difficulties.

I reckon the only thing we can do is all pit our heads in the sand until we grow wings and migrate !

We have plenty of young people of the right ability to train as doctors. It is a course that is hugely oversubscribed and many young people of excellent ability are turned away. The government limit the number of training places available for medics. And if we want to keep our homegrown medics we should pay them properly.

pinkquartz

we do need more workers for the NHS and other services but why not train peoplewho are already here?
It is not good to "steal" trained staff from oher countries who also need more workers?

If you train more people who are already, they are likely to go abroad as soon as they are qualified since the NHS salaries are so lousy. The people we 'steal' only want to be here because salaries/working conditions are worse.

The UK has an ageing population and there are not enough younger workers. It is impossible to staff the NHS, social care, hospitality, etc., without immigrants. And even if we had enough young people of the right ability level it takes about 5 to 7 years to train a junior hospital doctor. What do we do meanwhile? Where I live in the SW it is difficult to find a p!umber, electrician, gardener or home care worker.

Lyndie

In 2022, long-term immigration into the UK was an estimated 1.2 million. This is an estimated increase of 221,000 compared with 2021 (942,000). This 2021 figure has been revised upwards (from 895,000 to 942,000). This upwards revision results from methodological improvements and the inclusion of asylum seekers, who were not covered by the migration estimates published in November 2022. Please see the Section 9: Revisions to migration estimates for more information, and Section 11: Glossary for the definition of long-term immigration. This is from the ONC.

I’m at a loss as to how this can continue. Insufficient housing, pressure on medical services, insufficient doctors, nurses, and midwives, rising class sizes, increased road traffic, insufficient water as soon as we have three weeks of sunshine, crumbling infrastructure, hotels full of migrants which causes local difficulties and resentments, the need to achieve net zero. How can all these problems be solved with a government with it’s head in the sand and ignoring the problems? Legal or illegal immigration, the huge increases in population is causing difficulties.

And because we don’t train enough doctors in this country (government policy, and I presume it’s because it’s expensive to train medics) and many are emigrating to countries where they are treated better, we therefore have to poach doctors from other countries.

nanna8

If they are only paid £14 per hour as new doctors I am surprised they bother. You get more stacking shelves in a supermarket here.

I agree nanna8, we treat doctors abysmally in this country. It’s no wonder they go abroad to work. There is little appreciation of the 5/6 years they’ve spent studying and training, followed by the long years they then spend continuing to train whilst working in the NHS. It took my daughter twelve years to train as a doctor and to become a fully qualified GP. Some areas such as anaesthesia take longer before they are at consultant level. They are called ‘junior’ doctors until they reach consultant level or GP level. The word ‘junior’ is misleading because they are fully trained doctors after the 5/6 years at university. But many of the public, including some on Gransnet, don’t understand this.

In 2022, long-term immigration into the UK was an estimated 1.2 million. This is an estimated increase of 221,000 compared with 2021 (942,000). This 2021 figure has been revised upwards (from 895,000 to 942,000). This upwards revision results from methodological improvements and the inclusion of asylum seekers, who were not covered by the migration estimates published in November 2022. Please see the Section 9: Revisions to migration estimates for more information, and Section 11: Glossary for the definition of long-term immigration. This is from the ONC.

If they are only paid £14 per hour as new doctors I am surprised they bother. You get more stacking shelves in a supermarket here.

growstuff I specifically meant there are legitimate routes for medics to arrive as we actually poach them from other countries and so they are perfectly legal immigrants. I know there are not necessarily legitimate routes for some others who arrive in dinghies.
They are not likely to be medics as we welcome medic migrants because we need them and therefore medics can arrive legally.

maddyone There are no "legitimate" routes for people from a number of countries, especially if they've been persecuted for political, religious beliefs or sexual orientation.

Trueider when I was in hospital with Covid in 2021, one of the nurses who helped to treat me was from Ghana and she had only arrived at the beginning of Covid. I thought her mother must be out of her mind with worry about her daughter working on a Covid ward in Britain at the height of the pandemic.
Not only was she a wonderful nurse, she was absolutely beautiful. We poached her from Ghana.

Perhaps we could make a start by paying the doctors more and then they might stop leaving to go to work in countries where they are valued properly. Ditto the midwives and nurses. Then we could also fund enough training places so that we have sufficient staff and therefore don’t need to poach from other countries. I’m sorry, but I simply don’t believe that a high proportion of the migrants arriving on boats are qualified doctors and dentists, midwives and nurses. There are legitimate routes for them to arrive. The people on the boats are economic migrants.

Proof Required. Statements mean nothing without proof.

Anniel

We certainly need more workers in the UK, but how many of the immigrants crossing the channel have the qualifications and experience to be doctors and nurses or would be suitable for an ancillary role in the NHS. The matter of immigration is very important. We need workers but I would prefer training for people already in UK. I know the accepted status of refugees, but this island nation has overpopulated cities and our country is very small. It is not in France’s interest to stop the immigrants at the coast from leaving. I cannot think of any method that would control this desperate situation. You may not agree with any controls, but there is a very big problem and there seems to be no solution. And please do not start calling me a “racist” because that is simplistic and truly a lie.

I agree with you entirely, Anniel, even down to the worry of being called a "racist".

I agree with all the other posters too about the poaching of foreign trained medical staff like the Ghanaian nurses who train in Ghana then move here to earn more than at home this depriving their own health service of quality staff

Freya5

Grantanow
We need more immigrants to staff the NHS and other services, public and private.
No we need to improve salaries, go back to free training, dont forget these students work on their placements, they dont just follow, with a proviso of 3 years working in NHS post qualifying, to gain further experience, improve working g conditions and encourage more home grown people to enter this career.

Could not agree more Freya5

Please remember that there’s a huge difference between asylum seekers, economic migrants and the Roma gypsies/travellers whom all make their way to this country. Yes we lost a lot of EU workers due to Brexit, many of whom worked in the NHS or carers and yes we need a strategy/policy to contain/control immigration of all types, whilst ensuring we maintain a balanced workforce and filling our thousands of nursing, doctor and teaching vacancies. Our current govt have had over 12 years to resolve these issues

tax payers have to fund these small boats arrivals needs stopping

Is the clue in the word offered safe and legal routes.
Hong Kong for example could count for many many thousands of these "offers".

The original post was about refugees, not all immigrants. Based on the figures, refugees seem to constitute 5-10% of total net immigration. Any population growth, wheresoever it comes from, will place strain on infrastructure.

We certainly need more workers in the UK, but how many of the immigrants crossing the channel have the qualifications and experience to be doctors and nurses or would be suitable for an ancillary role in the NHS. The matter of immigration is very important. We need workers but I would prefer training for people already in UK. I know the accepted status of refugees, but this island nation has overpopulated cities and our country is very small. It is not in France’s interest to stop the immigrants at the coast from leaving. I cannot think of any method that would control this desperate situation. You may not agree with any controls, but there is a very big problem and there seems to be no solution. And please do not start calling me a “racist” because that is simplistic and truly a lie.