The Refugee Ship

MayBee70

Apologies if this has been mentioned before ( I’m flitting in and out today) but someone said on tv the amount of money being spent on the Rwanda scheme, which obviously isn’t working as a deterrent, could be better used to help provide accommodation or employ more people in processing migrants. And people don’t seem to realise that a lot of the money being used regarding migrants is coming from our overseas aid budget, which, under this government has already been drastically reduced.

Rwanda is not in the equation yet.

From what I've seen from a filmed internal tour of the barge, it certainly isn't five star, but it isn't a Dickensian prison hulk either. I would imagine that compared to the accommodation many asylum seekers have left in their home country, and have experienced en route across Europe, it will represent a welcome, safe, warm, dry and relatively comfort refuge, for which they are paying nothing. So no frills seems reasonable to me under these circumstances. Beats a tent in Syria or elsewhere, anyway.

Can't believe some of the comments on here painting single, male refugees as potential criminals and rapists, and suggesting that women in the area are somehow suddenly more at risk of attack. No-one here has actually used the "r" word yet, but the inference is clear. As someone said earlier, Donald Trump and his Proud Boys obviously have some support here for those views about immigrants. Leaves a bad taste.

Dickens

nanna8

With global warming how come they can’t settle previously very cold places that must now have become habitable? The Arctic being one of them.

Or even Antarctica (eventually) - though the angle of the sun might be a bit of a problem for growing 'stuff'! So we might have to airlift in a few packed lunches .

I have pondered this before now and, if climate change became as extreme as has happened previously or another asteroid were to hit then yes, Antarctica could become habitable, couldn't it?

nanna8

With global warming how come they can’t settle previously very cold places that must now have become habitable? The Arctic being one of them.

Well, that's where the boats and barges could come into their own!!

MerylStreep

nanna8

With global warming how come they can’t settle previously very cold places that must now have become habitable? The Arctic being one of them.

Mmmm 🤔 I don’t think you’ve thought that suggestion through, have you?

And the nearest neighbour might want to eat you for breakfast...

o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?quality=100&image_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fs.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas%2Fd6792631767f188ec73521b05d12c21d%2F204995298%2F498047592-ed.jpg&client=cbc79c14efcebee57402&signature=d68b3a4ec0781301f2cc65c8fe23998f043ccab4

nanna8

With global warming how come they can’t settle previously very cold places that must now have become habitable? The Arctic being one of them.

Or even Antarctica (eventually) - though the angle of the sun might be a bit of a problem for growing 'stuff'! So we might have to airlift in a few packed lunches .

nanna8

With global warming how come they can’t settle previously very cold places that must now have become habitable? The Arctic being one of them.

Mmmm 🤔 I don’t think you’ve thought that suggestion through, have you?

nanna8

With global warming how come they can’t settle previously very cold places that must now have become habitable? The Arctic being one of them.

I think you’re being ironic here

With global warming how come they can’t settle previously very cold places that must now have become habitable? The Arctic being one of them.

Primrose53

Callistemon21

Very sensible post, Dickens

Some people have spent years in refugee camps, refugees from some countries have spent generations.

Is the world ever going to solve the problems of war, persecution, drought?
I can't see it happening any time soon.

If they’ve spent “years” in refugee camps how come they can pay thousands of € to people smugglers.

I hear this excuse time and time again “oh well their families help them out”. I can hand on heart say that there have been many times in my life when I could not have borrowed that amount of money from anybody in my family because neither I nor they had any money! They are clearly better off than I was some years ago.

The people who have spent years in refugee camps are presumably not the people who want to come here Primrose!

www.habitatforhumanity.org.uk/blog/2016/09/refugees-asylum-seekers-migrants-crucial-difference/

www.unhcr.org/refugee-statistics/

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0306422015569438#:~:text=However%2C%20one%20of%20the%20oldest,home%20to%20some%207%2C000%20people.

The oldest camp was probably the one set up in 1947 after the partition of India.

Callistemon21

Very sensible post, Dickens

Some people have spent years in refugee camps, refugees from some countries have spent generations.

Is the world ever going to solve the problems of war, persecution, drought?
I can't see it happening any time soon.

If they’ve spent “years” in refugee camps how come they can pay thousands of € to people smugglers.

I hear this excuse time and time again “oh well their families help them out”. I can hand on heart say that there have been many times in my life when I could not have borrowed that amount of money from anybody in my family because neither I nor they had any money! They are clearly better off than I was some years ago.

Callistemon21

Very sensible post, Dickens

Some people have spent years in refugee camps, refugees from some countries have spent generations.

Is the world ever going to solve the problems of war, persecution, drought?
I can't see it happening any time soon.

I can't imagine how depressing it must be to contemplate that your whole life, or a large part of it, might be lived in one of these refugee camps.

The older generation might be resigned to it - knowing that they'll never see their homeland again - too sad to even think about it.

I can understand why young, or younger, men decide to 'move-on' towards Europe. We've all only got one chance at life. If they are watching their families disintegrate and they are used to being previously active in the workforce... well, who wouldn't want to try to improve their and their family's life?

Is the world ever going to solve the problems of war, persecution, drought?
I can't see it happening any time soon.

A thousand curses on war-mongering tyrants who, for no other reason than ego, self-aggrandisement, narcissism and blood-lust, want to start and engage in a war.

No, I can't see it happening any time soon, either.

So it's the boats that are not fit for purpose, the state of the sea is pretty irrelevant. They been to be stopped before more lives are lost in a horrific manner.

Thanks Dickens for your contributions

09:33Joseann

I follow a man on Facebook obviously I can't give his name he says he's a channel observer he's usually accurate, he has said this morning that a boat got into difficulties in French waters and was escorted back to Calais.

Very sensible post, Dickens

Some people have spent years in refugee camps, refugees from some countries have spent generations.

Is the world ever going to solve the problems of war, persecution, drought?
I can't see it happening any time soon.

I hope there is a zero tolerance policy of any bad behaviour with these migrants, both on board and when they are roaming around ashore unsupervised.
Any complaint, any incident of bad behaviour should result in them being sent home pronto.

Of course there is a problem there. So many of these devious characters destroy their passports and paperwork so they can claim to come from a war-torn country like Syria.

In my opinion Braverman does not want to speed up Home Office processing (which would on historical evidence result in about 70% being granted refugee status) because hotels, barges, etc., enable whipping up of anti-immigrant feeling.

I would expect a newly converted and unoccupied barge to look clean, it's just been painted. Would some people prefer someone to go round spreading filth before it's used just to satisfy the demands of some that migrants should be housed badly? My daughter's uni accommodation was filthy and expensive but she had her own tiny bathroom, somewhere to put her belongings and somewhere to study plus a shared kitchen. She soon got it "shipshape" if you excuse the pun .

The rough seas are coming in later, not yet. Probably just the media hyping it again.
The past few days the sea state in Plymouth and Portland has been slight or moderate.
I know because DD and SiL are avid sea state checkers (paddle boarders).

nanna8

I have to admit it looks better than I expected and I didn’t expect gymnasiums . It looks like a Princess cruise line, albeit the economy class. I have to say, if it is anything like here, a lot of homeless people wouldn’t go in a hostel place because of the other people there who are sometimes violent and/ or drug affected - they feel safer in doorways rather than in the ‘shelters’ where things get stolen and people beat them up. Completely different issues from the refugees. At least I hope so.

Agree nana8. There are no 'frills' but it is providing the basic needs for human existence in a safe environment.

Faced with an ever-increasing number of migrants seeking asylum in the UK, we have to be both compassionate and realistic.

We have a system which is designed to help persecuted people and those suffering the effects of environmental disasters, and this system has to be sustainable.

As much as one might sympathise with an economic migrant and understand their motives - they are in effect abusing the system, and it will ultimately collapse if steps are not taken to deter them from exploiting it.

It's all very well to suggest that among these migrants will be much-needed doctors and engineers, there might well be, but there will also be uneducated migrants from poor countries and, again, as much as one can understand and sympathise with their motives in wanting a better life - this is not what the system was designed for.

Those that suggest we welcome anyone and everyone who want to come here with open arms are being as unrealistic as those who think we should just push the boats back and wash our hands of the whole migration problem.

We all know that immigration to our shores has been happening since it first became possible to move around from country to country. We have absorbed immigrants, and their culture(s) into our own.

If you are a refugee from, say, the war in Syria, and you are languishing in a refugee-camp in Jordan or Turkey, for months on end with no prospects, no work, no future - and decide to further migrate to Sweden / Germany or the UK - are you an asylum seeker or an economic migrant?

I don't know the answer, and I don't know the solution, but that's the reality, and that's why we need an integrated and co-ordinated Europe-wide and world-wide strategy to deal with the matter. Because the system has to be sustainable and we have to have the infrastructure to support it.

And if climate-change ultimately makes some parts of the world completely uninhabitable - then we really do have to have a plan. World-leaders are just not keeping up in any meaningful sense with the rapid change in environmental matters and geo-political events, maybe because they're too invested in their domestic popularity and too involved in internal squabbles.

I don't think my 'view' will be popular - with either those that are 'for' or those that are 'against', and I am looking at the issue from both a narrow, personal perspective as well as a wider, hopefully more objective one, but even so, there appears to be a 'narrative', and I don't think I've followed it. Also, of course, I'm no expert - and there are other posters who are far more involved and far more knowledgeable on this issue, so I'm prepare to be 'corrected'.

3 dinghies yesterday about 157 rough seas.

SueDonim

Casdon

It’s absolutely grim. I’m surprised to discover that some of you live in substandard accommodation yourselves if you think this is luxurious. Just look at the pictures.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66270811

My husband spent years living in such accommodation when he worked offshore on oil platforms. Not only that, they also had to ‘hotbed’ at times such as during shutdowns.

Those photos also look a darn sight better than some student accommodation my offspring have lived in at times, for which we had to pay endless £££.

I said the same earlier SueDonim. My friend’s husband and son both work on the rigs.

Casdon

Nicenanny3

18:16Casdon

In fact I’m appalled at the lack of compassion and the utter selfishness of some posters on this thread, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

*Just out of interest where do you think they should be housed then, what facilities and comforts are they missing*

I’ve summarised what I think should happen already in this thread Nicenanny3.
In terms of accommodation specifically, I think housing people who are fleeing from war zones in bunk beds on a grim portakabin offshore is unacceptable, bearing in mind 70% of these men will ultimately be granted refugee status. If I were in charge I’d suggest they are boarded out one each with the Tory supporting most un compassionate Gransnetters actually to see if you feel the same about them when you hear the truth about what they have been through. Failing that, disused military facilities are probably the best option. Just to remind you, only 6% of asylum seekers have been processed since 2018, the Tory party has caused this backlog problem.

I would suggest you check whether all Labour and Lib dims agree with this policy of housing 500 illegal immigrants on a barge near them. Why make a blanket accusation that it's all down to Torys. Just listened to the deputy mayor of portland, giving off blanket waffle on behalf of the Labour Party, she obviously does not listen to her local people about what they have to say. So come along all you in favour give these young men a room.

Following on from that nanna8, and people asking about other countries, I know that in France the overflow of refugees are put in hostels where there are also undesirable druggies and violent people etc. There is a move to place them in regions outside the capital because the reception centres are saturated. Infact even existing refugees housed in Paris are being removed to the French countryside so they don't "spoil" the look of the city during the Olympic Games. The latter I feel sorry for because they are under duress and are usually without an interpreter to inform them of the implications, but equally they can't demand to choose where to go and what type of accommodation when there are so many needy homeless French nationals.