Gransnet forums

News & politics

Careful what you say, or you may end up without any banking facilities.

(480 Posts)
M0nica Wed 19-Jul-23 08:44:03

The DT headline news today is that Nigel Farage's bank, Coutts, unilaterally shut down his bank account with them, not, as they said originally because his assets fell below a minimum figure but because:

He doesn't align with our values He is seen as zenophobic and racist. He is considered by many to be a disingenuous grifter. Being associated with NF represents a material and ongoing reputaional risk to the bank

So now you know, we have a a new set of self-appointed censors in the land. Hold the wrong political views - and thats it, your bank account will be closed down.

And why should they stop at political views? Will the banks start closing the bank accounts of any one with contentious ethical or religious views, or because they are in the public eye for some aspect of their behaviour.

Will Huw Edwards, Philip Schofield, Katie Price, Prince Harry have their bank accounts closed down because the banks, who daily process millions, if not billions of £s for drug dealers, corrupt members of corrupt regimes, whose people starve while they stash £millions away in secret bank accounts, consider that the above named ^do not align with their values'

Who gave the banks, and when, the right to censor what we do and what we think and withdraw, that absolute essential of life today - a bank account - because someone's political or other views offend their delicate consciences?

TerriBull Mon 24-Jul-23 09:13:34

Anjem Choudary is charged with directing a terrorist organisation, hmm! given he's been on under surveillance for quite some while for what he advocates, just pondering as to whether he has a bank account, and if so, whether he meets his bank's high minded values, not that I'm suggesting his? would be with Coutts, Better or worse than Farage that's the million dollar question? One we are reliably informed is a Spiv shock and a xenophobe and the other well he'd just like to commit mass murder!

Primrose53 Sun 23-Jul-23 09:03:13

Good for him!
I would do exactly the same.

Shinamae Sat 22-Jul-23 19:24:29

🤓

Callistemon21 Sat 22-Jul-23 14:42:56

Read Terribull's excellent post as well.

Callistemon21 Sat 22-Jul-23 14:40:59

Whitewavemark2

FarNorth

WWMk2 yet Coutts didn't feel any need to eject Farage during all that time, so what has changed?

Read siopes excellent post. It will tell you all you need to know

How come?
Should we only read one view?

Callistemon21 Sat 22-Jul-23 14:32:21

fancythat

This says that Coutts is part owned by the public.
Cant see how it is not personally. But I am not necessarily correct.
And others are sure to not believe Boris anyway.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12324223/BORIS-JOHNSON-Dame-Alison-way-blame-BBCs-false-report-Farage-Coutts-Im-afraid-really-needs-go.html

If so, where are my dividends?
🤔

MerylStreep Sat 22-Jul-23 13:39:28

It looks like the Spanish are fighting back against the pride flag being draped everywhere.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12325153/Francos-ghost-haunts-Spain-hard-Right-makes-comeback-ruling-socialists-set-humbled-tomorrows-election-new-breed-young-voter-turning-clock.html

Primrose53 Fri 21-Jul-23 19:57:50

fancythat

This says that Coutts is part owned by the public.
Cant see how it is not personally. But I am not necessarily correct.
And others are sure to not believe Boris anyway.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12324223/BORIS-JOHNSON-Dame-Alison-way-blame-BBCs-false-report-Farage-Coutts-Im-afraid-really-needs-go.html

I’ve looked at many sources today and agree that it is part owned by the public.

I also agree with Boris that Alison Rose must go!

eazybee Fri 21-Jul-23 18:16:27

One should be able to trust one's priest, doctor, lawyer, accountant and banker implicitly to keep all details of interactions confidential.

This patently has not happened, and it is a betrayal of trust.

fancythat Fri 21-Jul-23 17:27:18

This says that Coutts is part owned by the public.
Cant see how it is not personally. But I am not necessarily correct.
And others are sure to not believe Boris anyway.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12324223/BORIS-JOHNSON-Dame-Alison-way-blame-BBCs-false-report-Farage-Coutts-Im-afraid-really-needs-go.html

Shinamae Fri 21-Jul-23 16:50:15

Primrose53

tickingbird

Lily flower’s post nailed it.

WWM2 was adamant that NF’s account had been closed due to the large sums of Russian money that had been paid into his account and repeatedly posted such along with her assertion that he’s a lying scoundrel and it’s about time he had his comeuppance.

As it’s now been revealed Coutts have lied and apologies are being offered WWM2 has resorted to listing all of NF’s diabolical behaviour and repeats her assertion that this is a non story and has been inflated by NF to keep him in the spotlight.

I’m too busy to list all other comments by GN members along the same lines but as Lilyflower and others have said this is shocking and it scares me that some have so much hatred (and it is hatred) of NF they are blind to what’s happening here.

Best post on here today! 👏👏

Exceptionally well said Primrose…👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Primrose53 Fri 21-Jul-23 16:21:52

tickingbird

*Lily flower’s* post nailed it.

WWM2 was adamant that NF’s account had been closed due to the large sums of Russian money that had been paid into his account and repeatedly posted such along with her assertion that he’s a lying scoundrel and it’s about time he had his comeuppance.

As it’s now been revealed Coutts have lied and apologies are being offered WWM2 has resorted to listing all of NF’s diabolical behaviour and repeats her assertion that this is a non story and has been inflated by NF to keep him in the spotlight.

I’m too busy to list all other comments by GN members along the same lines but as Lilyflower and others have said this is shocking and it scares me that some have so much hatred (and it is hatred) of NF they are blind to what’s happening here.

Best post on here today! 👏👏

Primrose53 Fri 21-Jul-23 16:18:21

NotSpaghetti

FannyCornforth

Primrose and others, I’m pretty certain that WW said that she’d copied and pasted her Farage report from Led by Donkeys

Yes she did. She said they had compiled it

Whatever ….. I can’t imagine many people read it.

Namsnanny Fri 21-Jul-23 15:30:13

Good posts from Terribull and lilyflower Thank you.

fancythat Fri 21-Jul-23 15:21:16

Some may have been for "legitimate" reasons for all I know.
But at least proper light is now finally being focused on the whole issue.

www.which.co.uk/news/article/why-banks-are-freezing-accounts-and-what-to-do-if-it-happens-to-you-aPXrh7F1YCx1

fancythat Fri 21-Jul-23 15:19:08

Oreo

Nigel Farage has done some good by going public with this, there are so many other stories out there about people being unbanked, but they’re not high profile enough to make the news.
Hope it makes banks think twice now that it’s out in the open, and btw Alison Rose did issue an apology to NF about the way he was treated, and rightly so.

which spoke about this 2 years ago.

It has taken someone "famous" for things to properly happen, and hopefully now change.

Namsnanny Fri 21-Jul-23 15:07:18

AR didnt accept or apologise for passing private info about NF to Mr Jack's from the BBC. Of course this has yet to be confirmed, so feel free to question this

Remember, NF has put in another request for information held by the bank on the handling of his account.

By law every piece of paperwork retrospectively has to be handed over.

He is hoping he will get some information on whether AR passed info about him to Mr Jacks of BBC. Who rang NF with that information, and proceeded to broadcast it on the BBC.

It will take around a month for this to happen.

So much for a non story.

Oreo Fri 21-Jul-23 14:40:44

Nigel Farage has done some good by going public with this, there are so many other stories out there about people being unbanked, but they’re not high profile enough to make the news.
Hope it makes banks think twice now that it’s out in the open, and btw Alison Rose did issue an apology to NF about the way he was treated, and rightly so.

NotSpaghetti Fri 21-Jul-23 14:14:55

FannyCornforth

Primrose and others, I’m pretty certain that WW said that she’d copied and pasted her Farage report from Led by Donkeys

Yes she did. She said they had compiled it

Namsnanny Fri 21-Jul-23 14:07:28

Saetana

For the last time, Farage was only offered a personal account with Nat West - he needs a business account as well. This offer was made verbally a few minutes before his show went on air a couple of weeks ago. He himself admitted he had been under the weath threshold for Coutts for some time - however there are many other Coutts account holders who are also in that position. Coutts do not close the accounts of longstanding customers just because they have fallen below the threshold. They used the end of his mortgage as an excuse to get rid of him due to his political beliefs and opinions. I have read the full report - there is hardly anything about his actual finances in there, it is just packed full of baseless speculation (the Russia stuff) and links to biased media articles. This is not a "non story" - there is a group started on Facebook with thousands of people who have lost their accounts with the Nat West group, helping each other to make Subject Access Requests. This is going to cost Nat West big time, as they need to reply to all those requests within 30 days. Farage himself said he had never heard of an SAR until this happened to him, presumably his lawyers advised him to put one in.

👍

Namsnanny Fri 21-Jul-23 14:04:16

Siope

I used to work in the finance sector, in a private institution (which is what Coutts is, regardless of NatWest’s ownership).

All banks, private and so-called ‘high-street’ risk assess customers and potential customers. High street banks like Nat West are obliged to provide basic banking services, except to people who fail basic risk management tests such as identity, financial crime or immigration status. Other banks do not have this obligation.

High net worth individuals tend to get risk checked more often and more deeply as they have more likelihood of being in a position to facilitate large scale financial crimes.

The dossier Farage obtained was a risk management assessessment. It showed that he was considered a risk to the bank. Managing and mitigating high risk accounts costs more.

The dossier shows that, although Coutts considered Farage high risk (and thus expensive) he was paying them enough (certainly via a mortgage, perhaps in conjunction with other fees) to make it worth the additional cost of managing the risk no matter what his politics and personal beliefs were. Thus, a hard-headed, pragmatic business decision: we despise you, but you meet our business conditions and earn us money, so we will keep you.

What changed was not Farage’s politics or his personal beliefs, and it would be laughable to suggest Coutts suddenly acquired a new set of ethics. The change was Farage’s financial position vis-a-vis Coutts: he repaid the mortgage, which meant his financial relationship with Coutts dipped below the minimum their terms and conditions require, and he was also no longer making them more than he was costing them.

So Coutts did what any similar financial institution (or business, really) would do: it dropped an unprofitable customer who didn’t comply with their financial terms of doing business.

I was impressed with Ms Rose’s letter yesterday. I’m even more impressed now that it seems a number of people believe it’s a heartfelt apology. It isn’t. Think of it as being the the non-apology you make when you’ve snapped at a child: I’m sorry I was cross, but my decision was right, and all your temper tantrums have changed nothing; you still can’t have a fizzy drink, but you can have water. Now hush.

And, FGS, Farage had not been de-banked. He’s been offered the same bank account 95% of us have quite happily.

You arnt as informed as you think I'm afraid.
ESG changes everything

But the point you are wilfully missing has been said more eloquently than I can, ie this behaviour indicates there is too much power in the hands of the banks (in this instance).

AGAIN, this isnt about NF or indeed even Coutts. It is about a system being misused against its customers.
The people who pay their wages.

Saetana Fri 21-Jul-23 13:57:34

For the last time, Farage was only offered a personal account with Nat West - he needs a business account as well. This offer was made verbally a few minutes before his show went on air a couple of weeks ago. He himself admitted he had been under the weath threshold for Coutts for some time - however there are many other Coutts account holders who are also in that position. Coutts do not close the accounts of longstanding customers just because they have fallen below the threshold. They used the end of his mortgage as an excuse to get rid of him due to his political beliefs and opinions. I have read the full report - there is hardly anything about his actual finances in there, it is just packed full of baseless speculation (the Russia stuff) and links to biased media articles. This is not a "non story" - there is a group started on Facebook with thousands of people who have lost their accounts with the Nat West group, helping each other to make Subject Access Requests. This is going to cost Nat West big time, as they need to reply to all those requests within 30 days. Farage himself said he had never heard of an SAR until this happened to him, presumably his lawyers advised him to put one in.

TerriBull Fri 21-Jul-23 11:42:59

I see you have quite a dossier on Farage WW, and if indeed much of it is true, I'm sure you've done your research, from what you've outlined, I agree, an unsavoury character to say the least. Naive it might seem, but he wasn't on my radar in a very meaningful way, sure I knew he was the UKIP man, and whilst I'll admit to being a floating voter, I never floated that way.

However, as others have stated this is bigger and more far reaching than one individual. There are a hell of a lot of people being de banked, and some for the most innocuous reasons, such as the vicar (yes sorry all roads lead back to the vicar right now) but his observations of the very overt nod to PRIDE by his bank really illustrates a very worrying trend if you question that.

Going back to Coutts handling of Farage, the fact that highly over paid top woman Alison Rose was indiscreet enough to discuss NF's account with the BBC man over a dinner is truly shocking in the way she broke client confidentiality there. Whilst they, Coutts, seem to have adopted these new found values that embrace inclusiveness and equality, pity that doesn't extend to the disparity between what the head honcho earns in relation to the staff at the lower echelons. I believe in Denmark for example, the person at the top's salary is limited to not more than 20 times the lowest earner in the company, an aside I know, but personally I'd welcome that model here. How can anyone be worth what she earns and not have the nous to know how she has made an absolute pig's arse ear of her mishandling of Farage's business.

On the subject of nasty people, who have bank accounts, it's all too random their character is irrelevant really, or indeed perceived miscreants such as liking tweets, Ricky Gervais' something along the lines of "old fashioned type of women who don't have a penis" is that anymore reprehensible than Frankie Boyle who was heard, when musing on killing and rape recently said something along the lines of "would I rape Holly Willoughby and kill her afterwards?, no I'd probably rape her first then kill her" That might well have been tongue in cheek but unacceptable when we know what happened to Sarah Everard. Previously he'd made awful, awful comments about Katie Price and her disabled son, how the hell has he not been cancelled God only knows, but there he is on The BBC, darling of The Guardian. My point is there is an utter selectiveness who gets cancelled these days, if you're on the right side of "our values" then you're pretty much ok, The values incidentally selected by those who are driving along much of this new ESG that companies, financial institutions have to embrace if they don't want to lose investment or be blacklisted. Why do we have to be socially engineered by the likes of Stonewall they're a lobby group and they represent a minority, they did sterling work at one time, but now a lot of people don't like what they represent. So why do we have to our thought process interrupted by a retailer's constant reaffirmation that they support PRIDE and LGBTQ when we are out buying Maris Pipers as I was in M&S a couple of weeks ago. To what end ? and why? as for the person who said up thread, if you don't like what your bank or retailer's values, then go elsewhere. The problem is they are all singing from the same hymn sheet these days so it's pretty unavoidable and we the public, as in the case of the vicar are not being unreasonable to question it, because we all remember a time when it wasn't like that. I don't need to know when I'm visiting a bank or retail outlet they support PRIDE and LGBTQ anymore than if such organisations sponsored say Morris Dancers, it is irrelevant to the consumer and not what they are there for. I don't care about any individual's sexuality, I wish them well, have a nice life!

Nowadays, it appears that there is so much deference to PRIDE, why a whole month,? why this rainbow flag everywhere.? As I said up thread, Regent Street in June looked as if some foreign, invading army had taken over, flags unfurled in the way the Nazis draped there's all over the place when they occupied Paris or other major foreign cities

I stated before, and I will say it again, I absolutely supported equal rights for gay people have no problem with gay marriage. I do have concerns about what is being taught in school and how covert that is. Numerous parents have said that there is little transparency when trying to find out about some of the teachings around gender, in particular, those who now put forward the theory that there could be as many as 70 genders. These teachings are not based on scientific fact, they are perceptions that doesn't make it so, anymore than fundamental Christians who believe the world is only a mere 6,000 years old, or indeed some of the stuff I was fed at my catholic schools, unsubstantiated beliefs which should be open to challenge and debate. Somehow we've regressed, it seems just as it was in my day when we got to a questioning age about what we were imbued with and tried to counter argue some of those accepted beliefs, we were met with a "get out" and now I read those pupils who are brave enough to say they only subscribe to the fact that there are two genders are met with same response It's all very retrograde and in some respects sinister if parents don't know what's going on, it's almost tantamount to grooming and whilst I digress somewhat from the OP, it is all part and parcel of the wider landscape.

Some of this social engineering is so insidious that often people are not aware, for example, some of the gender critical women who have written books, like Sharron Davies and Helen Joyce have said their material is difficult to find in say Waterstones, a definite tacit disapproval therefore. How often do people impulsively purchase a book because they happen to be just browsing, but if books are hidden away then that is of course damaging to the author and in itself a form of censorship.

The worst thing about it, what is being foisted upon the general population is under the guise of a progressive drive but to all intents and purposes it has the hallmarks of a regressive one party state mentality. Look no further than Trudeau's handling of the protesting truckers, locking them out of their own bank accounts, just to illustrate how illiberal any democracy can become when the inner meglomaniac emerges from a Pandora's Box of new orthodoxies promoted by un elected pressure groups.

fancythat Fri 21-Jul-23 10:59:34

Apparently the report also says
"It also stated that the committee did not think that continuing to bank Mr Farage "was compatible with Coutts given his publicly-stated views that were "at odds with our position as an inclusive organisation"

fancythat Fri 21-Jul-23 10:49:56

Now reading the post better!