By Elections on 20th July..

Wyllow3

ULEZ is an issue here in my city but the only two parties that count here are Lib Dems and Labour, both pro ULEZ.

It seems to me that ULEZ needs much more fine tuning -but it's a measure designed to give people clean enough air to safely live with respiratory conditions, and to try and increase in cities use of public transport - so - one of those really difficult ones.

I think your last paragraph is true Wyllow. Parties must "show their workings" and that they are using joined up thinking.

Transport systems are just as important as scrappage and are actually not mentioned by those backing the extremist Tories on here.

Wyllow3

ULEZ is an issue here in my city but the only two parties that count here are Lib Dems and Labour, both pro ULEZ.

It seems to me that ULEZ needs much more fine tuning -but it's a measure designed to give people clean enough air to safely live with respiratory conditions, and to try and increase in cities use of public transport - so - one of those really difficult ones.

The policy on the environment is a major dilemma for all parties I think. I suspect that if this election had been somewhere in Southern Europe the result may have been different given the heatwave they and a lot of the world are experiencing at the moment. Self interest in a very difficult economic environment is understandable, and this was a chance for people to vote anti ULEZ.

Casdon

It was depressing to see that in Uxbridge and South Ruislip 714 people chose to vote for Laurence Fox, over 2% of the votes cast. That proves that there are some very, very right wing people out there, which is scary in my opinion.

I suspect they are really Tory voters who wanted to make a protest vote - pity there weren't an additional 500 more!

There is no doubt that ULEZ swung the vote, but I can see no alternative if there is an urgent need to clean up the air which is killing people.

I think that a swing of 23% should have Tory MPs worried.

Riverwalk

Casdon

It was depressing to see that in Uxbridge and South Ruislip 714 people chose to vote for Laurence Fox, over 2% of the votes cast. That proves that there are some very, very right wing people out there, which is scary in my opinion.

I suspect they are really Tory voters who wanted to make a protest vote - pity there weren't an additional 500 more!

I don’t know, as there were other non Tory right wing candidates they could have voted for if they wanted to make a protest vote. That anybody would actively choose to vote Fox scares me.

Luckygirl3

It is time for Starmer to get himself into gear and to come up with something that is not just watered-down libdem/conservative stuff.

Ah, an extremist left-winger instead of an extremist right-winger of for a change

These are the people who stand, looking at their burning houses. When the firemen arrive, they decide that these are not the right type firemen for them. They decide to wait until the right firemen come along, stopping the ones who could put out the fire getting on with their job.

Meanwhile their house burns down.

Whitewavemark2

There is no doubt that ULEZ swung the vote, but I can see no alternative if there is an urgent need to clean up the air which is killing people.

I think that a swing of 23% should have Tory MPs worried.

I think it's convincing people of a long-term plan, Whitewave but it won't be easy.

varian

The Labour candidate in Somerton and Frome actually got even fewer votes than the LibDem candidate in Selby. That does not mean that supporters of either party are "delding themselves" if they think their party is gaining support, merely that it is necessary to vote tactically to defeat the Tories. because of our absurd FPTP voting system.

Congratulations Varian.

Poorer people need financial help to cope with ULEZ and similar schemes. Labour needs to take that on board. But the clear message from the results is that a lot of Tory MPs had better start looking for a new job.

There is no long term plan, its schemes implemented with no real thought which impact on the poorest. Of course people arent going to vote for it. How many times are people going to be surprised by this.

The ULEZ scheme in my city isn't universally popular, but the particular layout of the city allows ordinary work people (white van) to go round fairy easily. so probably less controversy here than in other places - the mind boggles at the complexity for example in very busy south east.

Whats really needed is of course more electric and hybrid vehicles, but the cost factor.....more support is needed to move this along. The exemption system is good too.

I don't think Uxbridge voting a Tory MP will affect Ulez in London.

I have a Tory MP, I'm surrounded by Tory MPs, but it's some London councils going to court with this.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66087725

MPs have no clout over the London mayoral decisions with this - when Johnson introduced it, there was uproar, but it went ahead anyway.

The only hope of stopping it is at the High Court, and their final ruling hasn't been announced yet.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/04/london-ulez-expansion-tory-councils-legal-challenge

Can’t really have more electric vehicles until there are enough charging points. And more must be done to give people access to cheap public transport which I believe many European countries offer people. You can’t take something away from people unless you offer them an alternative.

MayBee70

Can’t really have more electric vehicles until there are enough charging points. And more must be done to give people access to cheap public transport which I believe many European countries offer people. You can’t take something away from people unless you offer them an alternative.

Yes that makes sense.

And I have just seen a direction from DoT - Shappes -sent to the Labour mayor that says that the ULEX scheme must be expanded to reduce the pollution.

Whitewavemark2

MayBee70

Can’t really have more electric vehicles until there are enough charging points. And more must be done to give people access to cheap public transport which I believe many European countries offer people. You can’t take something away from people unless you offer them an alternative.

Yes that makes sense.

And I have just seen a direction from DoT - Shappes -sent to the Labour mayor that says that the ULEX scheme must be expanded to reduce the pollution.

So have I!

So it was a tory policy (Johnson's when he was London Mayor) and its expansion was forced on Sadiq Khan by the then Minister of Transport, Grant Shapps in return for financial support for TfL during the Covid perion.

Somewhat ironic that the tory wins the by election on the strength of opposing a policy initiated and insisted on by the tories.

Sunak is trying to paint a picture of something that didn't exist. Nobody believed the next election was a done deal and they certainly won't now -which is a good thing.

He is a far distant spot, on a mountain, and no-one seems very keen to notice him. The rope he is holding was two-thirds shredded yesterday. He is right to take pleasure in the remaining third but there are so many things waiting in the wings to come along and shred that bit too.

His hubris this morning seemed very over egged - and where is his plan to tackle the climate and ecological crisis? Is this just another area where the extreme Tories don't even care?

Pleased with the election result in Selby and disappointed Labour didn't make it in Uxbridge. I think we can be hopeful for the GE when it comes. I'm not keen on wins with a massive majority as it leads to divisions in the Party as we have seen with the present Government. I'll settle for a comfortable Labour majority.
At by-elections you have to factor in that each Party can throw everything at it. In this case we had a glut of by-elections but they were different parts of the country so the troops could be mobilised to saturate on the ground. In a GE that cannot happen as everyone is fighting for their own seat. You can divert some activists to key seats which you think you can win, and need to win for that majority.

Over the three seats the Tories were down 21% on their vote in 2019 according to Prof John Curtice.

I am in one of those constituencies. Many of us voted tactically. We certainly did not want labour in and we wanted to send a warning shot to the conservatives, hence the lib dem candidate got in.

It could well be very different at the general election

karmalady

I am in one of those constituencies. Many of us voted tactically. We certainly did not want labour in and we wanted to send a warning shot to the conservatives, hence the lib dem candidate got in.

It could well be very different at the general election

Or not - I think a lot of people will vote tactically at the General Election just because they want the Tories out. We’re in for a very interesting time ahead, and there will be many new MPs, which is good because we need a real shake up in our political system and some fresh blood.

It will be interesting to see if this sparks another round of MPs declaring that they won’t be standing for parliament next time.

It will be interesting to see if this sparks another round of MPs declaring that they won’t be standing for parliament next time

I think it will, Casdon, as they try to secure a nice directorship while they are still 'somebody'. Sadly, this will deprive us, well me anyway, of the joy of seeing them losing their seats, one after the other.

Witzend

Yes, turnout in all 3 only about 44-46% IIRC.

Still think it will be a Hung Parliament.
Low turnout but during a GE the Tories come out of the woodwork and Vote.
Going to be interesting...

I don't see a hung parliament, tho if it is, it will end up a Lab/Lib Dem coalition.

I think in the end any given "regime" simply runs out of steam and trusted leadership and the conservatives have had it. too much trust has evaporated.

I forsee, on the whole, continuing tactical voting as long as we have FPTP and people wanting a change.

I also unfortunately don't see voting % rising greatly unless something very unexpected comes along.

House Plant Queen, yes, some of us still remember that 'Portillo' moment.
Great commentator of trains, but we cheered in our house when he lost his seat.
We are gluttons for punishment at a GE and stay up all night watching.
Visgirl, I hope you are wrong about a Hung Parliament but you speak truth when you say the Tories close ranks and come out to vote at a GE.

Visgir1

Witzend

Yes, turnout in all 3 only about 44-46% IIRC.

Still think it will be a Hung Parliament.
Low turnout but during a GE the Tories come out of the woodwork and Vote.
Going to be interesting...

I dislike Labour, but would never describe their voters as derogatory as you have described Tory voters. Could say its the Labour voters who don't bother to come out and vote.