What kind of father sacrifices his children in order, he thinks, to win an election

If they really cared about pollution, they would ban the very use of ANY vehicles which used fuels that pollute the atmosphere - for the rich and the poor, whether they were driving, flying, or using any other method. Also the use of these fuels in manufacture or service industries.

That would make the development and use of new non-polluting technologies an urgent priority for everyone. But that just isn't going to happen, is it? There are hundreds of believable reasons for continuing to creating pollution, and thousands of plausible excuses too.

That is not how it came across at all.

What are your suggestions?

Whitewavemark2

Nicenanny3

I don't know the ins and outs, it's under review now. I live in Cheshire just over the border my children and grandchildren live in Trafford I wouldn't have been able to visit them without paying the ULEZ charge. Big campaign here at the time on Facebook lots of stories how it would affect people in different ways, white van man trying to earn a living, people just inside the zones who couldn't access the motorway without paying etc. People who had cameras outside their homes having to pay money they couldn't afford just to drive out of their street. The cameras, thousands of them are still up but the signage has been covered up saying under review.

Do they all own very old cars or diesels then?

They certainly don’t where I live.

Not everyone can afford to get rid of their old cars and buy green new ones. You must live somewhere among the affluent (or those deep in debt to credit cards)

Callistemon21

Whitewavemark2

Grantanow

ULEZ seems to be a tax on poorer people.

Yes it seems that way - but it is a tax on pollution that affects the poor the most.

So it seems that the poor with very old cars are moaning because they can’t continue to harm the most poor children.

So it seems that the poor with very old cars are moaning because they can’t continue to harm the most poor children

I'm shocked at such an easy, throwaway and very unkind remark.
Perhaps life is not a struggle for you as it is for many?

What do you suggest?

It wasn’t a throw away remark it was thought out and sincerely made.

What I am saying is that no thought is being given to those dying and suffering as a result of the pollution.

And it is the poorest who generally suffer. Where on earth is the solidarity and support for these children who are dying?

Well said Callistemon21!

If the only aim was to protect poorer children from the pollution then surely non compliant vehicles would simply be banned from entering these zones? As it is, if you can afford the daily charge then you are free to go on polluting. Or is 'paid for' pollution somehow less polluting?

Whitewavemark2

Grantanow

ULEZ seems to be a tax on poorer people.

Yes it seems that way - but it is a tax on pollution that affects the poor the most.

So it seems that the poor with very old cars are moaning because they can’t continue to harm the most poor children.

So it seems that the poor with very old cars are moaning because they can’t continue to harm the most poor children

I'm shocked at such an easy, throwaway and very unkind remark.
Perhaps life is not a struggle for you as it is for many?

What do you suggest?

Grantanow

ULEZ seems to be a tax on poorer people.

It is.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

I do think that the zeitgeist is not with Sunak on this one.

No one can fail to understand that carbon is what is driving the climate and the disasters we are seeing year after year.

To announce an expansion of fossil fuel extraction amounts to nothing short of lunacy.

His party is divided on this and the majority of the country is not supportive. GN is not a representative body of opinion btw.

I understand that the oil and gas won't come on stream for 20 years. Maybe a saner government will have put a stop to it by then.

Yes between 20-30 years. Meanwhile there is no pressure to develop better technology for renewables. Even Sunak’s carbon capture holes has not yet been developed.

That pressure would be all the more if we were aware that we had no more carbon to dig up.

Grantanow

ULEZ seems to be a tax on poorer people.

Yes it seems that way - but it is a tax on pollution that affects the poor the most.

So it seems that the poor with very old cars are moaning because they can’t continue to harm the most poor children.

Whitewavemark2

I do think that the zeitgeist is not with Sunak on this one.

No one can fail to understand that carbon is what is driving the climate and the disasters we are seeing year after year.

To announce an expansion of fossil fuel extraction amounts to nothing short of lunacy.

His party is divided on this and the majority of the country is not supportive. GN is not a representative body of opinion btw.

I understand that the oil and gas won't come on stream for 20 years. Maybe a saner government will have put a stop to it by then.

ULEZ seems to be a tax on poorer people.

People are fed up with being told that they can't do things that the better-off can do. There is a COL crisis, meaning that people are struggling just to get by. Workers' rights have been decimated, so adding time to travel from one zero hours job to another costs money. People are working all week and still using food banks and sitting in the cold. Queues to get medical help are being jumped by those who have the money, pushing the poor to the back for life-threatening lengths of time. Gaps between rich and poor are widening in every area of life.

Being told that you can't use certain roads if you can't afford a new car, or that you have to drive miles out of your way to visit your mother (and still pay an ULEZ charge in some areas) is the final straw. It doesn't mean that people don't care about asthmatic children, and frankly, it's insulting to suggest that that is the case - it is just that the people pushing these schemes can buy their way out of being affected by them.

I think Andy Burnham is still as popular hear as when he won in every single area of Greater Manchester. People were trying to pretend he was unpopular just before the vote.

Nicenanny3

I don't know the ins and outs, it's under review now. I live in Cheshire just over the border my children and grandchildren live in Trafford I wouldn't have been able to visit them without paying the ULEZ charge. Big campaign here at the time on Facebook lots of stories how it would affect people in different ways, white van man trying to earn a living, people just inside the zones who couldn't access the motorway without paying etc. People who had cameras outside their homes having to pay money they couldn't afford just to drive out of their street. The cameras, thousands of them are still up but the signage has been covered up saying under review.

Do they all own very old cars or diesels then?

They certainly don’t where I live.

I do think that the zeitgeist is not with Sunak on this one.

No one can fail to understand that carbon is what is driving the climate and the disasters we are seeing year after year.

To announce an expansion of fossil fuel extraction amounts to nothing short of lunacy.

His party is divided on this and the majority of the country is not supportive. GN is not a representative body of opinion btw.

The ins and outs are very important though, nicenanny, particularly when, as you say yourself, the result of a Tory policy is to make a Labour mayor ‘a hate figure’.

Precisely.

Germanshepherdsmum

How do you know 80% will be exported? And how are any exports ‘all about money for the government’? Cynical or what?

I must be a bit dim, or ignorant, but surely exporting ANYTHING makes money for those exporting it - ie, the owners or producers of it - not for the Government, except indirectly by the taxes they put on the producers' money? Have we nationalised all oil and gas production while I wasn't looking?

I don't know the ins and outs, it's under review now. I live in Cheshire just over the border my children and grandchildren live in Trafford I wouldn't have been able to visit them without paying the ULEZ charge. Big campaign here at the time on Facebook lots of stories how it would affect people in different ways, white van man trying to earn a living, people just inside the zones who couldn't access the motorway without paying etc. People who had cameras outside their homes having to pay money they couldn't afford just to drive out of their street. The cameras, thousands of them are still up but the signage has been covered up saying under review.

But wasn’t that because of government penalties if he didn’t? It is very difficult to run a Labour council under a Tory Government (as it will be in reverse), as cuts in central funding limit what you can do. If there is a choice between extending the ULEZ and cutting the education or social care budgets, for instance, leaders are between a rock and a hard place.

59Doodledog

I mentioned a Tory council (although I'm sure you're right, GSM that housing developments are on the outskirts across the piece - where else can they go?) because it is the Tories who have brought in the 'green' schemes, and the Tories who are now seeing that they are unpopular and are turning against them, leaving Labour councillors to pick up the pieces.

Andy Burnham was forced to introduce ULEZ in Manchester because the government insisted on it, and a cynic might think that the fact that this would make him unpopular could have been a factor in Manchester being chosen. Newcastle has one too, and also has a Labour mayor

What made Andy Burnham unpopular (actually a hate figure here by a lot of people, me included) was like Khan he wanted to extend the ULEZ scheme to outer Manchester areas, some actually in the countryside

Germanshepherdsmum

How do you know 80% will be exported? And how are any exports ‘all about money for the government’? Cynical or what?

80% of oil exported?

Always been the case - I thought that was common knowledge.

What we pump up is not the same as what is pumped up elsewhere and different oils are used for different things.

The argument that if we pump up more will mean cheaper oil is spurious.

Gas is pumped in U.K. is almost directly straight to our boilers so different. But as maybe says we have next to no storage facilities thanks to the Tories.

Meanwhile, there is little talk of homegrown renewable energy, which is 3x cheaper than oil and gas. The oil and gas will be produced by foreign owned companies and much of it sold on the world market to other countries. The tories have sold off our infrastructure to foreign owners , even the national grid is owned by the Chinese. They have had 13 years to sort things out and now they are trying to paper over the gaping chasms caused by their own short sighted policies.

He’s not sacrificing his children as they can go everywhere in his private jet ….