What kind of father sacrifices his children in order, he thinks, to win an election

Yes, we had a ducted warm air system years ago. It sucked air in as well as blowing it out, so it did tend to collect dog hair on the filter, but it was cosy and efficient (& cheap to run).

We had ducted warm air heating in our first house, I loved it. never had any kind of dust problem. A lot of the ducts outlets wee in the ceiling, so no radiators cluttering the walls and it was very efficient.

I have onged for anther house with warm air heating ever since.

However warm air heating did get a bad name because it was adapted as a cheap heating system in council houses and flats. Tese systemss had only two outlets, one in the hall and one on the landing and relied on peole leaving all the doors open to let heat circulate. They often had in adequately sized boilers to eat the air so rapidly got a bad reputation and were phased out. A shame because when done properly the systems were very good.

I think these problems are often found with retro fitted systems. We are lucky that ours was designed for the property when it was built. For maximum efficiency you need to have them running continuously, but a thermostat in every room, as we have, means that the heating only comes on when the temperature drops below what you’ve set. For heating water we find the immersion heater is better, just programme it to come on and off to suit your needs and boost if necessary,

I don’t agree that this will have to be afforded one day ilovecheese. A vast amount of the country’s housing stock is reliant on oil or gas heating. The cost of converting every such property, not necessarily producing good results, is unimaginable. Much as I love my air source heat pump, I wouldn’t want a retro fitted system imposed on me if I had oil heating (which is the only alternative out here in the sticks unless you have the space to be able to comply with the regulations for having a tank of calor gas).

Ilovecheese

But it is going to have to be afforded one day not so far in the future. A way will have to be found.

All new homes should be built with solar panels and alternative form of heating imo.
I don't understand why that is not compulsory.

Converting older homes might be a much longer process.

They definitely aren’t designed to blow heat out of ducts - yuk, the dust!

I remember some 1960s houses were built with ducted warm air, can't remember it producing dust in my relative's house. Perhaps she whizzed round cleaning twice a day! (Wouldn't be surprised.)

A small group of sheltered bungalows I know of were converted from electric night storage heating to an air-source pump system, about 7 years ago. Results have been mixed.

Some people are satisfied with both efficiency and bills, others have found they are never warm enough and water never heats above tepid. One person’s system has, after years of problems and enormous bills, been found to have been incorrectly installed. (I think there are question marks about the general quality of installation in this particular project).

Installation was extremely disruptive in these very small bungalows. Under-floor heating was not installed. The large outdoor fans (?) seem to generate a lot of condensation, and trays and pipes have had to be installed to take the resulting water down to ground level, resulting in patches of ice in very cold weather.

All in all, and taking into account possible installation faults, these results would dissuade me from installing this system as a replacement, but not necessarily from incorporating it into a new-build, which sounds much more successful.

But it is going to have to be afforded one day not so far in the future. A way will have to be found.

Underfloor heating works well with heat pumps. I don’t have experience of using them with radiators. They definitely aren’t designed to blow heat out of ducts - yuk, the dust!

I’m all for saving the planet but I can’t imagine how such huge expenditure to stop people using gas can be afforded.

Avoid using wood burning stoves if possible. England alone, polluted air leads to up to 38,000 premature deaths each year

energysavingclub.co.uk/

Anyway, if anyone is interested:

freeheatingscheme.org/switch-to-renewable-energy-wales/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=wales-switch&utm_term=heat%20pump&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw5remBhBiEiwAxL2M96sGRWo1WPNoApDoRwG3EoLmLuWF_G5t6upXS2aFxW03KTuzbcu0IBoCgIMQAvD_BwE

I think the concern our friend had was that her existing heating system would be removed if she found the heat pump wasn't efficient.

MaizieD

But the real question mark is over the efficiency of air source heat pumps (which I assume are the type being fitted)

I've always understood that they are more effective when used in conjunction with underfloor heating, but I also have seen that the modern ones are more efficient than the earlier models, so a larger radiator area and really good insulation may be all that's needed.

The cost comparisons I found ranged from good to modest savings. They are driven by electricity so I suppose that if you have PV panels too that should help with the cost of running them. Though ideally you would need some battery storage for the months when there is less light for the panels. That's quite expensive still.

I haven't investigated them but assumed they might blow ducted warm air and didn't realise they need radiators or that they can work by underfloor heating.
Obviously tearing up all the floors in an older house wouldn't be practical.

I think the concern our friend had was that her existing heating system would be removed. Her bills are low anyway as the house is well insulated.

No doubt that is Norah's personal view too
Norah questioned why anyone would not.

But the real question mark is over the efficiency of air source heat pumps (which I assume are the type being fitted)

I've always understood that they are more effective when used in conjunction with underfloor heating, but I also have seen that the modern ones are more efficient than the earlier models, so a larger radiator area and really good insulation may be all that's needed.

The cost comparisons I found ranged from good to modest savings. They are driven by electricity so I suppose that if you have PV panels too that should help with the cost of running them. Though ideally you would need some battery storage for the months when there is less light for the panels. That's quite expensive still.

MaizieD

Callistemon21

Well, bully for you.

I did say it was a personal view. No doubt that is Norah's personal view too.

I appreciate that others might think differently, but all the modestly waged people I knew did their own decorating too.

Yes, my view. Modest living never really changes what one views as extravagance. However, don't question our holidays.

Callistemon21

Well, bully for you.

I did say it was a personal view. No doubt that is Norah's personal view too.

I appreciate that others might think differently, but all the modestly waged people I knew did their own decorating too.

Well, bully for you.

MaizieD

P,S Having spent my entire adult life doing my own home decorating (except when part of the house was flooded and the house insurance covered the redecorating cost) I wouldn't view the redecorating as a major issue. But that's just a personal view.

We do our own decorating, repairs, fittings. No problems, IMO.

Typos, I was multi-tasking.

MaizieD

I suppose that if you can't weigh the turmoil of the installation and the cost of making good against the offer free expensive equipment and insulation which will cut your future costs of heating and electricity, and make it a positive, then you could turn down the offer?

I think the question is - how efficient and how reliable are heat source pumps?
The outsude oil fired boiler and tank are taken away so, in a particularly severe winter, how would the pump compared with oil central heating?
If it doesn't keep the house warm whst then?

We've always done our own decorating until recently but it's beyond us now and the person I was told about is in her 80s, sitting in a tiny space in the middle of chaos while the parts are awaited.

P,S Having spent my entire adult life doing my own home decorating (except when part of the house was flooded and the house insurance covered the redecorating cost) I wouldn't view the redecorating as a major issue. But that's just a personal view.

I suppose that if you can't weigh the turmoil of the installation and the cost of making good against the offer free expensive equipment and insulation which will cut your future costs of heating and electricity, and make it a positive, then you could turn down the offer?

I don't know if the firm will replaster where needed but I shouldn't imagine they would redecorate afterwards.

This scheme is for people under a certain income level so the cost of having the whole house redecorated afterwards could be prohibitive for some people.
If, of course, you can find a decorator who is free before at least January next year!

Ours is excellent but it was fitted when the property was built. We have underfloor heating. It kept us warm during the very low temperatures last winter even though we have vast expanses of glass. I don’t know if retro fitted systems are as efficient.

That sounds horrendously expensive - and yes, having a heat pump and new radiators and the old boiler removed would be very disruptive and there would be a lot of making good to do.