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Is UK An Elite Dictaorship?

(173 Posts)
rafichagran Fri 04-Aug-23 00:18:38

No

GrannyRose15 Fri 04-Aug-23 00:10:57

The correct term I believe is oligarchy. We don’t have a dictator that would make us a dictatorship but nor do we have a democracy where the people are in charge of decision making through the ballot box. The referendum was the largest exercise in democracy this country has ever had but seven years later we haven’t got what the people voted for because far too many of the elite have refused to accept the result.

maddyone Thu 03-Aug-23 23:48:59

I think he makes some good points.

Doodledog Thu 03-Aug-23 22:46:06

I don’t think we are in a dictatorship either, but our rights and freedoms have been eroded a lot in the past ten years.

I think the conclusions of the article are wrong, but I also think that the author makes some good points. I dislike the sneering that seems to have got worse since the start of the Brexit campaign. Everyone looks down on everyone else, encouraged by the government and it’s Comms team. Old against young, rich against poor, the well against the sick and so on. There is so little respect for those who think differently or live different lives, and I don’t think it was always like that.

Who is ‘the elite?’ Experts were roundly dismissed by Gove, who has no noticeable expertise of his own, and every year when exam results come out there are sneers about how easy it is to get a degree (or ‘piece of paper’), and how not everyone is university material - an observation that never applies to the speaker’s descendants, of course. Young people think ‘Boomers’ are entitled and uncaring, and older ones think Millennials and younger are entitled and feckless. Except for their own children and grandchildren of course grin.

Our representatives don’t listen to us. The examples in the article of transitioning children and immigration do matter to a lot of people, and writing them off as bigots or reactionaries is undemocratic - of course it is. It’s the same with electric cars and the failing health service- blaming fat smokers, and suggesting that owners of older cars don’t care about children’s health is patronising and inaccurate.

The government perpetuate myths that are widely believed - that all politicians are the same, that no information can be trusted (unless the speaker agrees with it), and that most ‘other’ people are too stupid to exercise judgement. Enough people think like this to make disagreement the default, and collective action impossible. It’s dictatorship by stealth. If we are fragmented and arguing amongst ourselves we are far less likely to notice what the people at the top are up to.

Louella12 Thu 03-Aug-23 22:14:34

Of course we're not living in a dictatorship

Freya5 Thu 03-Aug-23 22:07:35

MaizieD

DiamondLily

I don't know. I just think we all, as individuals, have the choice to decide who we want to listen to, and who we want to vote for.

I've voted since 1973 and we've always had media jump one way or another.

Not a dictatorship.

We don't have the unconditional right to vote that we enjoyed until this year. Excluding people for arbitrary and frankly specious reasons are not the mark of a free democracy. They are the start of a slippery slope.

I agree with you entirely, varian

You can vote just as easily now as you could years ago. Oh yes, we are coming in line with most free societies, in Europe for instance, having to prove you have the rights to do so. Taking personal responsibility to enable this. No charge, you can get free ID, as in other countries. So no we are not a dictatorship. A ridiculous notion. What do you think would have happened to the trespassers on the PMs roof if they were in China, North Korea. They certainly wouldn't get away with a slap onthe wrist. They are dictatorships.

MaizieD Thu 03-Aug-23 21:03:45

DiamondLily

I don't know. I just think we all, as individuals, have the choice to decide who we want to listen to, and who we want to vote for.

I've voted since 1973 and we've always had media jump one way or another.

Not a dictatorship.

We don't have the unconditional right to vote that we enjoyed until this year. Excluding people for arbitrary and frankly specious reasons are not the mark of a free democracy. They are the start of a slippery slope.

I agree with you entirely, varian

Wyllow3 Thu 03-Aug-23 19:19:21

No.

varian Thu 03-Aug-23 19:00:29

Yes we do live in a dictatorship, what a wise old Tory politician once called an "elective dictatorship".

Every five years or so, sometimes more frequently, we have a general election, which, because it is held under the utterly appalling "First Past The Post" undemocratic electoral system, nearly always results in a party which most voters opposed, gaining a majority of seats in the House of Commons.

In 2019 the Conservatives gained an 80 seat majority with only 43.6% of the vote.

They could then do anything they wanted for up to five years.

What was the result? - chaos, gross incompetence and venal corruption.

Yes, I agree, we certainly are indeed ruled by an elite, but certainly not the "woke elite" that the far right Telegraph commentator Alister Heath, suggests, we are ruled by a big money elite of the Tory Party funders.

Smileless2012 Thu 03-Aug-23 17:58:26

I'm sure anyone actually living in a dictatorship would be more than happy to live here instead.

henetha Thu 03-Aug-23 17:57:58

No.

DiamondLily Thu 03-Aug-23 17:56:17

Yep, I do think policy is often decided on the back of minority "shouters", but, with enough push back, it can easily change again.

Politicians, in the end, tend to follow the votes. Which is why we see them tying themselves in knots, at times, unable to answer a simple question.

But, while we still have a voice, and while we still have a free vote, is still wouldn't call it a dictatorship.

Oreo Thu 03-Aug-23 16:39:25

👏🏻👏🏻😃😃
I agree with all he says.

Doodledog Thu 03-Aug-23 16:33:22

I still have temporary access to the Telegraph, so have taken one for the team and looked up the article. Here it is - by Allister Heath:

Britain’s deranged war on cars, our looming ban on gas boilers, the debanking scandal, the failure to prosecute crime, the attempted cancellation of women, the sabotage of the Brexit agenda, the scale of migration: welcome to anti-democratic Britain, where the beleaguered majority is increasingly subject to the whims of an entitled, activist elite that often seems to despise the people over which it exercises so much power.

All the policies listed above share a devastating commonality: they are deeply unpopular, and would be crushed in a referendum after a fair campaign, were the politicians courageous enough to grant the public a say (in the case of Brexit, they did, of course, and continue to this day to resist implementing the revolutionary change implied by the vote).

In a truly majoritarian society, one where the demos actually exercised kratos, no form of crime would be tolerated, and certainly not burglaries or muggings. Nobody would dare to indoctrinate school children with extreme trans ideology, and the green agenda would be centred around urgent technological innovation rather than seeking to prevent working people from flying to holidays in the sun.

Yet we live in a very different political reality, one in which public opinion is flagrantly disregarded whenever it doesn’t align with the views of the ruling class. Westminster has become cartelised: the large parties are committed to an unrealistic dash to net zero, refuse to discuss the gargantuan cost involved, and omit to mention that Britain’s carbon emissions are about 3 per cent of China’s. On the great subjects of our time – family policy, the size of the state, the NHS and even planning rules – there is little difference between Tory, Labour and Lib Dem MPs, disenfranchising millions.

The intellectual conformity is stultifying, and has been reinforced by the emergence of an all-powerful Blob, the nexus of mandarins, policy advisers, quangocrats and other government agents, a class of “public servants” who don’t really like the public and are increasingly convinced that they have a constitutional duty to constrain and contain elected politicians. They are experts at delay, prevarication and lawfare, and are cheered on by the Left-wing activists who have taken over the legal profession, our cultural institutions, academia, charities and even many big companies.

Thus even in the rare instances when the Tories attempt to think the unthinkable and respond to public opinion, as with the Channel crossings, the system does its best to block any change, empowered by quasi-constitutional legislation such as the Equality Act, the Climate Change Act and our membership of the ECHR.

The upshot is an extraordinary disempowerment of the electorate: is it any wonder that some voters fear we risk becoming a democracy in name only? Take the absurd war on cars: a tiny minority of activists, council planners, devolved administrations and ministers are seeking to discourage the mode of transport that the vast majority of the population relies on. Or consider immigration, which is a lot higher than the public would like: all potential solutions to reduce numbers while preserving the economy are lambasted as gimmicks, meaningless or self-evidently stupid. The Tories have promised to cut numbers in every single one of their manifestos since at least the 1990s, and yet aren’t even pretending to try any longer. How does this not disastrously undermine trust in politicians?

Until recently, all parts of British society bought into the democratic ethos developed after the great voting reforms of the 19th and 20th century, or at least paid lip service to it. It was deemed snobbish to dismiss the views of ordinary voters out of hand, and borderline insane to seek to reverse the expansion of the consumer society.

That consensus, already left fragile by the Blairite legal revolution and his massive increase in the number of university graduates, was finally shattered after the 2016 Brexit referendum. Most of our institutions are now controlled by a pseudo-meritocratic elite convinced that only it can prevent the masses from reverting to ignorance, racism and prejudice.

Our new ruling class is paternalistic, messianic even: in a post-religious age, it has taken on the role of priest and saviour of the common people. It still occasionally feels the need to legitimise unpopular ideas by pretending that they garner majority support, hence all the polls “proving” that people support net zero. Yet when asked to pay the price in terms of actual cash or drastically reduced convenience, the public immediately rebels.

There was a time when we worried, rightly, that the tyranny of the majority was the main threat to freedom and prosperity; today, it is the tyranny of the minority that poses the greatest danger. Our new task is to prevent the majority from being oppressed: how do we stop the capture of every institution by the radical Left? How do we make Parliament more representative, and reduce the power of the Blob? One answer would be to use a lot more referenda, as the Swiss do; another would be radical reform of the Civil Service, turning ministers into CEOs with proper control over mandarins.

I’m well aware that the majority can have bad or evil ideas, or vote for maniacs. We need to retain – and in some cases, further develop – protections against majoritarian abuses, even if some of the current ones are no longer fit for purpose or have been hijacked. Elites have helped drive much good social change in recent decades, including by fighting racism and prejudice against all sorts of minorities.

But the pendulum has swung too far away from majoritarian rule, and too much power handed to social engineers. Today, the problem doesn’t lie with the public, which is largely tolerant and liberal-conservative, but with the elites, who have become authoritarian and anti-democratic, captured by wokery and a dislike of material aspiration.

What we call populism, in the current British context, is really the majority trying to reassert itself. Voters are developing a new form of class consciousness; “motorists” are becoming a political force. The Ulez fiasco is acting as a gateway, normalising opposition to other excesses.

The message to politicians is clear: start listening to the voters again, or else Britain will soon face a popular uprising orders of magnitude greater – and more unpredictable – than Brexit.

DiamondLily Thu 03-Aug-23 16:14:43

I don't know. I just think we all, as individuals, have the choice to decide who we want to listen to, and who we want to vote for.

I've voted since 1973 and we've always had media jump one way or another.

Not a dictatorship.

Siope Thu 03-Aug-23 16:13:42

It’s the frankly insane Alister Heath, who thinks Kwarteng’s budget was the best ever! He spends his entire time promising unicorns in sunlit uplands, if only something or the other was different this week.

MerylStreep Thu 03-Aug-23 16:09:47

MaizieD

As the article linked to is behind a paywall perhaps the OP could give us an outline of what it says.

To me it sounds, from the title, like one of those absurd pieces where the fact that we're being ruled by a right wing authoritarian government, comprising a great many wealthy and privately educated people, is totally ignored and the 'elite' is all the middle class people who don't like what the government is doing.

I do, in fact, think that our government would love to be a dictatorship and are working on it, aided and abetted by mad rightwing columnists...

I read what I could. He is saying that the tail is now wagging the dog. The loudest voices aren’t being heard.

DiamondLily Thu 03-Aug-23 16:04:15

Well, I still wouldn't call it a dictatorship. While we've got the right to vote, we can ignore media opinion, and make our own choices.

Politicians might like a dictatorship, but they know they are subject to the ballot box.

The only unelected, with power, soft or hard, is the House of Lords and royals.

MaizieD Thu 03-Aug-23 16:00:42

As the article linked to is behind a paywall perhaps the OP could give us an outline of what it says.

To me it sounds, from the title, like one of those absurd pieces where the fact that we're being ruled by a right wing authoritarian government, comprising a great many wealthy and privately educated people, is totally ignored and the 'elite' is all the middle class people who don't like what the government is doing.

I do, in fact, think that our government would love to be a dictatorship and are working on it, aided and abetted by mad rightwing columnists...

GrannyGravy13 Thu 03-Aug-23 15:42:15

No

DiamondLily Thu 03-Aug-23 15:40:48

No, I would t call this country as being under a dictatorship.

I would call places like Russia, China, North Korea etc those things.

We can, and do, criticise our government, all politicians, the royals, our system, whatever.

We have the freedom to vote without hindrance.

I would say both sides of the political media try to influence things, but we have the choice to ignore them.

There's worse places to live. 🙂

nanna8 Thu 03-Aug-23 13:14:20

Hasn’t it always been the case?

Anniel Thu 03-Aug-23 13:12:43

Todays DT gave us this opinion and I thought you would all have an opinion

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/02/britain-now-elite-dictatorship-majority-opinions-crushed/