Lucy Letby found guilty.

Iam64

Slghtly off topic but - my experience in local authority was raising concerns about a colleague often resulted in the person expressing concern being seen as the problem
Curious

Definitely. And if you watched NW news last night you’d have seen another example of this, not linked to the LL case.

Iam64

Slghtly off topic but - my experience in local authority was raising concerns about a colleague often resulted in the person expressing concern being seen as the problem
Curious

Whistleblowers are often the ones who are labelled as troublemakers.

maddyone

But they had no evidence Casdon. It was merely hearsay whilst the doctors did have some circumstantial evidence. It fits the picture my daughter painted of the GMC being used by managers to close down any discussion at all.

The results of the initial investigation would have been shared I’m sure maddyone. It wasn’t that there was no evidence, it was that the evidence they had gathered didn’t identify that Letby was responsible - two different things. I’m not defending the medical director, I’m saying that GMC must have believed the evidence they did receive. Just to clarify, the GMC is a profession specific organisation, and it must be a challenge for them when doctors disagree with other doctors, I can’t say if they favour medical managers above other consultants but you’d expect it would be on a case by case basis. In this case they also got it wrong.

Yes, Iam I have seen this too.

Slghtly off topic but - my experience in local authority was raising concerns about a colleague often resulted in the person expressing concern being seen as the problem
Curious

But they had no evidence Casdon. It was merely hearsay whilst the doctors did have some circumstantial evidence. It fits the picture my daughter painted of the GMC being used by managers to close down any discussion at all.

I think the complicating factor in this case as far as the GMC was concerned though maddyone is that the manager in question was also a doctor, he was the medical director, so would also have been involved. Presumably what happened is that they believed the evidence he presented?

I had a long conversation with my daughter last night. She knew about this case, although she’s currently in New Zealand. She’s also a doctor for those who don’t know. She keeps in touch with with what’s going on in the UK through a number of online forums especially for doctors and she said to me that disinterest in what doctors are saying by the GMC is commonplace and doctors are routinely threatened with being disciplined when they raise complaints. Managers are also routinely believed by the GMC as happened in this case. These consultants were threatened with the GMC by the management and the GMC were told by management that these doctors were bullying Lucy Letby.

You couldn’t make it up!

maddyone

Iam64

I read it’s an American scientist setting up a go fund me in order to appeal the convictions. Just what the devastated families don’t need

What!!!!!

That was my reaction too!!!

The project is called Science on Trial and as well as looking for funding it’s hoping to attract lawyers, scientists, researchers etc to help develop an appeal. It’s driven by a biochemist in California.

Iam64

I read it’s an American scientist setting up a go fund me in order to appeal the convictions. Just what the devastated families don’t need

What!!!!!

I read it’s an American scientist setting up a go fund me in order to appeal the convictions. Just what the devastated families don’t need

If she is suspected to have committed further murders, it is important that she is taken to court for each one, and if found guilty gets further life sentences. That way if she manages to wriggle out of any on appeal the life in prison will still stand. It really is the only possible sentence for her criminal acts/

M0nica

But Casdon they fiddled the figures to make them look better than they were.

I understood the issue was that the report wasn’t completed by the Royal College investigator Monica, and that the feedback to the Board of the Trust was inaccurate. I identified that a report had been commissioned though in response to your second paragraph, which implied that no action had been taken, when it was - I’ve thought all along that the quality of the investigative process was the problem, and this is one of the steps that was seriously flawed.

But Casdon they fiddled the figures to make them look better than they were.

Daily Telegraph reporting that fund raising for an appeal has started.

M0nica

Of course it seemed unbelievable that a staff member was actually committing mass murder but the managers do not seem to have been very interested in that, only in the reputation of the hospital, they deliberately fiddled how they reported the increasing numbers of deaths in the neo-natal unit so that the NHS central organisation that monitors hospital performance did not pick up the rise in injuries and fatalities and investigate.

If nothing else hospital management should have been notingand investigating the rising death and collapse rate in the neo-natal unit, even if the possibility of a member of staff deliberately attacking or killing babies wasn't the first thing on their list of possible causes.

That was actually done Monica
www.itv.com/news/granada/update/2017-05-18/countess-of-chester-hospital-statement-on-investigation-into-death-of-15-babies/

it would have seemed unbelievable that a staff member was actually committing mass murder.

I think people as a whole, should not be so trusting, sadly.
I lowered my expectations of people a few years ago.
The news, sadly, is full of misdeeds.

That is not to say I go around sad, but I do go around more wary.

Of course it seemed unbelievable that a staff member was actually committing mass murder but the managers do not seem to have been very interested in that, only in the reputation of the hospital, they deliberately fiddled how they reported the increasing numbers of deaths in the neo-natal unit so that the NHS central organisation that monitors hospital performance did not pick up the rise in injuries and fatalities and investigate.

If nothing else hospital management should have been notingand investigating the rising death and collapse rate in the neo-natal unit, even if the possibility of a member of staff deliberately attacking or killing babies wasn't the first thing on their list of possible causes.

As an exneonatal nurse I am worried parents will no longer trust them. My colleagues and I loved our babies (yes we had our favourites and I took one home) She has damaged the trust that over the years we have built with parents. I am concerned that the paediatricians worries were ignored. What has happened to the NHS, we are doomed.

maddyone

growstuff

It actually goes further than that. The Medical Director was reported to the GMC and the Head of Nursing was reported to the NMC. Both dismissed the claims. It was thought that Letby was being bullied.

It’s worrying isn’t it that both the GMC and the NMC dismissed this as bullying. I guess that’s how it was presented to them though. It just goes to show how events shouldn’t be taken at face value.

OTOH, and I’m not trying to excuse the actions of the hospital management, it would have seemed unbelievable that a staff member was actually committing mass murder.

growstuff

It actually goes further than that. The Medical Director was reported to the GMC and the Head of Nursing was reported to the NMC. Both dismissed the claims. It was thought that Letby was being bullied.

It’s worrying isn’t it that both the GMC and the NMC dismissed this as bullying. I guess that’s how it was presented to them though. It just goes to show how events shouldn’t be taken at face value.

flixukay

Chocolatelovinggran

The family of Olivia Pratt Corbett, who was shot in Liverpool last year, are campaigning for a mandatory extra sentence for those who refuse to appear for their sentencing hearing.

The trouble in this case is that Letby has already been given the absolute maximum sentence possible ie she will never be released or paroled.
There is no method of increasing it.
The other reason for not compelling a convicted criminal to attend their sentencing is that their (potentially) disruptive behaviour could detract from the victim statements and ruin the opportunity for the families to express their own grief and loss.
In other words in a case like this, it's not really possible to make the criminal's sentence even worse for their refusal to attend.

She can still appeal though to be released from her whole life tariff. Most of us will be long gone by then.

It actually goes further than that. The Medical Director was reported to the GMC and the Head of Nursing was reported to the NMC. Both dismissed the claims. It was thought that Letby was being bullied.

Chocolatelovinggran

The family of Olivia Pratt Corbett, who was shot in Liverpool last year, are campaigning for a mandatory extra sentence for those who refuse to appear for their sentencing hearing.

The trouble in this case is that Letby has already been given the absolute maximum sentence possible ie she will never be released or paroled.
There is no method of increasing it.
The other reason for not compelling a convicted criminal to attend their sentencing is that their (potentially) disruptive behaviour could detract from the victim statements and ruin the opportunity for the families to express their own grief and loss.
In other words in a case like this, it's not really possible to make the criminal's sentence even worse for their refusal to attend.