Lucy Letby found guilty.

Callistemon21

^I would like a health service which is arms length from any government and where day to day and major issues are taken out of governments hands and placed into an independent trust^

I think some of us have been thinking the same for a long time.

Our NHS shouldn't be subjected to so many changes for purely political reasons.

Good idea. An independent trust that could more easily be held to account.
And let’s apply that to education too.

The person I know who works in NHS admin has one major complaint - Managers. She says most are overpaid jobsworths, jockeying for position and prepared to trample over each other to get the top jobs.

eazybee

Concerns about NHS Managers have been rumbling for years, mainly about their excessively high salaries and the fact that when incompetence is exposed they are swiftly moved to another lucrative post elsewhere, as happened with Tony Chambers. I can't give any specific examples but it was certainly happening pre-covid.

I understand that complex organisations like the NHS need managers, and that 'outcomes' have to be measured - but when it appears that management is focused on targets, ticking boxes, and it's 'performance', secondary to the welfare of the patients to the extent that doctor's and nurse's concerns are dismissed or ignored - then something is seriously wrong. Those lessons that are to be learned mantra trotted out when such appalling events like this come to light is meaningless. It seems like hospitals are being run more like businesses than a service.

I would like a health service which is arms length from any government and where day to day and major issues are taken out of governments hands and placed into an independent trust

I think some of us have been thinking the same for a long time.

Our NHS shouldn't be subjected to so many changes for purely political reasons.

nanna8

The hospital group I was involved with had training sessions for staff about what to do if they saw something wrong in a medical sense. Nurses as well as doctors were encouraged to speak out and checks would follow. They pointed out that it could be hard to’ report’ a senior staff member but if there was something amiss it was their duty. That was back around the year 2000. Pity they don’t do that. Actually, why don’t they ?

They did!

Dickens

eazybee

Is there something wrong with a middle-class upbringing?

I would imagine everyone has been digging to try to discover the motive for her actions.

I don't think anyone's suggested there is anything wrong with a middle-class upbringing - the Daily Mail is highlighting it, not posters on GN.

Is it being used to mean a middle-class upbringing is somehow better and that a child brought up in such a household would be less likely to be damaged than one born into poorer or even wealthier circumstances?

If so, that argument holds no weight.

The hospital group I was involved with had training sessions for staff about what to do if they saw something wrong in a medical sense. Nurses as well as doctors were encouraged to speak out and checks would follow. They pointed out that it could be hard to’ report’ a senior staff member but if there was something amiss it was their duty. That was back around the year 2000. Pity they don’t do that. Actually, why don’t they ?

A letter from a paediatric consultant in the guardian outlined how nhs managers brought in during Thatcher’s term, have become more and more authoritarian over the years .

It seems to me that we need the type of reforming government who is not afraid to tackle this alongside all other issues relating to the NHS. I would like a health service which is arms length from any government and where day to day and major issues are taken out of governments hands and placed into an independent trust.

Something wrong, when "incompetence" in any organisation means you just move sideways.

Concerns about NHS Managers have been rumbling for years, mainly about their excessively high salaries and the fact that when incompetence is exposed they are swiftly moved to another lucrative post elsewhere, as happened with Tony Chambers. I can't give any specific examples but it was certainly happening pre-covid.

eazybee

Is there something wrong with a middle-class upbringing?

I would imagine everyone has been digging to try to discover the motive for her actions.

I don't think anyone's suggested there is anything wrong with a middle-class upbringing - the Daily Mail is highlighting it, not posters on GN.

I don't think there is anything crass in using the term'banality of evil' to describe Letby because it was first used to describe Eichmann. It sums her up perfectly.

previous not pervious

Who checks the highly paid Managers? It seemed as if they were not answerable to anyone.

This concerns me too.
Like I said upthread, police seem to police themselves.
Is it the same for NHS Managers?
Frightening if so. Cant say I had much thought about that pervious to this case.

Huia

I feel sorry for her parents. How on earth do they cope with what their only child has done?!

I am not sure how sorry I feel for them.
They still seem to believe she is innocent. Or are acting as such.
Her friends seem to be all doing the same still, as well. Odd.

I am not sure Allsorts I sometimes wonder whether the convicted murderer( in any case) might not feast on the stories of how much damage and life long distress their actions have caused. If they have done what they have done and shown no remorse, they probably emjoyed seeing the pain they had caused, so hearing it retold might be a pleasure. Plus, of course, they might act in a way that showed disrespect to the victime.

I agee the convicted should be in court for sentencing, but not for the victim's statements.

Why crass? I was merely giving the context for the phrase the 'banality of evil' as many on this thread have been unable to surmount the dissonance between Lucy Letby's smiling caring looking face and very ordinary background, free of great trauma and her actions.

To awful to comprehend. Who checks the highly paid Managers? It seemed as if they were not answerable to anyone.
Pity the victims statements were not played in Letbys cell, she would have had to listen. Don't doubt that Letby will soon find a role for herself in Prison, hard to process that physopaths have no remorse or conscience, that they appear ordinary and likeable, very chilling.
Don't know how the parents are coping, I couldn't listen to the evidence given by them, just too painful for them all. There's such good in the world and so much evil.

I think you are probably right and that some of her nursing colleagues would have suspected her. However, given the toxic environment they were working in, they would probably have lost their jobs if they said anything. Those people in charge should certainly never, ever, have similar positions again. I hope this time the system will change forever and more checks and balances will be brought in. I wouldn’t hold my breath,though!

I find it hard to believe other nursing colleagues didn't suspect LL given they must have worked closely as a team. She took pleasure in creating situations to watch the reactions of anxious parents, that's it. Babies were nothing to her, she is an inhuman psychopath with low self esteem, displayed extreme narcissist traits and desires that are well beyond normal. She had a chronically empty internal world, and was not able to feel empathy. She chose her career to satisfy her desire to fill her emptiness by creating situations where she could control the outcome. That's my view.

I feel sorry for her parents. How on earth do they cope with what their only child has done?!

Dr Ravi Jayaram has given an interview on television tonight. For anyone still thinking that we should wait for the inquiry to report regarding the behaviour of the hospital managers, I suggest they have a listen. It seems what happened is worse than we could ever have imagined. As if it’s not bad enough that we have had a serial child killer at work in one of our hospitals, the actions of the management in actually protecting her are mind boggling.
Total incompetence, stupidity, collusion, and rank unprofessionalism is my judgment.
The doctors however deserve all the thanks and respect that we can give them, because in the face of total denial, and threats, they continued.

MOnica how very crass to bring up adolf eichman on this thread!

MerylStreep

It’s obvious that some on here didn’t listen to one of the prosecutors explaining how painstaking it was to build the case because of lack of scientific evidence.
She explained how one crucial piece of evidence ( a phone call by a mother) helped to get the conviction.

Meticulous work by the police and prosecution team, ten months of evidence being presented in court, and some posters think they know better!

www.cps.gov.uk/mersey-cheshire/news/lucy-letby-found-guilty-baby-murders

After the Adolf Eichman trial in 1961, the writer, Hannah Arendt, describing Eichman, a non-descript little man, who was in charge of organising mass deportations and extermination of jews as representing the 'banality of evil'

This is what we are seeing in Lucy Letby, a nice friendly girl, but descibed as being very 'beige', Look at others like her, Dr Shipman who was loved by his patients.

One of the reason they get away with what they do as long as they do is because they look so normal, so friendly.

I have no difficulty believing she did everything she did. She is a psychopath and incapable of any feeling for other people.

Remember 'the banality of evil'. This is what we have here.