What is left about Labour now?

Andrew Fisher , political advisor to Corbyn, played key role in 2019 election

Who an what is Andrew Fisher, Grany?

@FisherAndrew79

This is so confused from Keir Starmer - and exposes the incoherence of Labour's economic policies

Says no extra money without growth (not clear how that will return) and instead offers "reform", including "the very best cutting edge technology" which surely has a very big cost🤷‍♂️

Labour ruling out tax rises for the rich has been praised by a Republican senator for being ‘very Reaganesque’.

What’s the point of Labour if it just does the same as the Tories?

We need a real opposition that supports the mass redistribution of wealth from the few to the many.

I think it's an outcome of the two party FPTP system that leads to many ending up chosing the " least worst" party for them.

The New Statesman does short videos where they answer readers questions. This one is about how Centrist Politicians chose a party.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUsQ8IB8CYY

Sometimes ‘least worse’ is the only way to go. My view is the current Labour Party is the best, the only choice, not least worse.
DM this morning reporting more people believe the LP will have tax policies that support working families , the tories will tax them more

Oreo

The Labour Party may not in it’s present form be what every Labour voter wants but it’s the best we’ve got and it stands a really good chance of winning next time around.

They are, at the moment, looking like the would win. The Tories couldn't be working harder at losing. Forming a government is step one. In the Ipsos Continuing Voting Intentions Labour is way ahead of where they were when they won the last election in 2005 and the Tories are way behind where they were then.

I cannot understand why Labour Party members would rather undermine that than be positive. Labour can't be complacent. They would not win if they moved further to the left.

It is faint praise but you are right, they are the best we have.

I will Iam , Grany must have someone in mind who will she finds pleases her.

Keep asking Annie

Grany who do you want to replace Starmer ?

MaizieD

It is an excellent read, Grany, but it is about Westminster, i.e Parliament, not the Monarchy.

I can assure you that in terms of pernicious influence and harm to democratic government the Monarchy comes well down the list.

Look at the place of the crown within our political system and the role it plays in concentrating power in the hands of the few, at the expense of the many.

And it seems labour has no idea or plans to reverse the trend of rich getting richer poor getting poorer.

There is a crowdfund to unseat Starmer

What does this Labour party intend to do about the rich getting richer? Well nothing. They are hoping for the trickle down to suddenly materialize.

The Labour Party may not in it’s present form be what every Labour voter wants but it’s the best we’ve got and it stands a really good chance of winning next time around.

The UK has a very high level of income inequality compared to other developed countries.

The majority of households in the UK have disposable incomes below the mean income (£32,300 as of 2022). This includes wages and cash benefits, and is after direct taxes like income tax and council tax, but not indirect taxes like VAT. The median income was rising by 2.2% on average for the last five years before the pandemic. However, in 2022, incomes for the poorest 14 million people fell by 7.5%, whilst incomes for the richest fifth saw a 7.8% increase.[1]

In 2022, households in the bottom 20% of the population had on average an equivalised disposable income of £13,218, whilst the top 20% had £83,687. As can be seen from the graph below when original incomes are compared, the difference is even more striking: the richest fifth had an income more than 12 times the amount earned by the poorest fifth

equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk#:~:text=However%2C%20in%202022%2C%20incomes%20for,top%2020%25%20had%20%C2%A383%2C687.

Just what does the Labour Party intend to do to reverse this trend of rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer?

I do feel rather fed up with the politicing from both extremes. They seem to think that is their job. Politucs, politics and more politics. Some of this between the parties but mainly internicine, and to hell with the grinding, not particularly attractive business of running the country.

It’s an irony that those accusing Starmer of being authoritarian fit the cap so well

Grany

How Westminster Works looks like a good read. Does it cover the two elephants in the room Charles, a supposed Head of State who does not hold the government to account, and Camila?

Yes Labour are conservative now Starmer says they are, same polices. There is nothing Labour about them. Starmer has taken over it’s a coup what comes after a coup a dictatorship he is authoritarian.

See Matt Kennard from declassified an investigative journalist five stories about Starmer.

It seems you believe you are the only person who can say what the Labour Party can look like Grany. Isn't that anti-democratic? Perhaps you want something other than democracy? It certainly sounds like it.

It is an excellent read, Grany, but it is about Westminster, i.e Parliament, not the Monarchy.

I can assure you that in terms of pernicious influence and harm to democratic government the Monarchy comes well down the list.

How Westminster Works looks like a good read. Does it cover the two elephants in the room Charles, a supposed Head of State who does not hold the government to account, and Camila?

Yes Labour are conservative now Starmer says they are, same polices. There is nothing Labour about them. Starmer has taken over it’s a coup what comes after a coup a dictatorship he is authoritarian.

See Matt Kennard from declassified an investigative journalist five stories about Starmer.

I put up a a link earlier. On it Chris Bryant talks a out how Parliament has been sidelined and how the rules could be made to work. I was shocked by the short days and the shortage of time for debates. He suggested that instead of one MP (JRS at one point) you have a committee of 5,7 or 9 running the arrangements for parliamentary business.

I really would suggest that you read Ian Dunt's book. How Westminster Works and why it doesn't. He examines the whole setup, through from MP selection, elections, ministers, Prime ministers, civil servants & Spads, passage of legislation, select committees, the House of Lords and the press.

It's very comprehensive, very worrying and not a swear word in it (Dunt being known for his salty language) apart from those used by his interviewees...

I listened to it. it was o.k.

DaisyAnneReturns

MayBee70

Never saw Keir as a power crazed megalomaniac. I think if he just wanted personal power he had plenty of that in his previous job. You only have to hear him talk about his upbringing to realise that he wants to do what’s best for this country. I’m not aware of him being massively unpopular either. He was regarded as being a bit land but I think the electorate have realised that funny charismatic leaders aren’t actually the best ones to lead the country.

Neither did I MayBee. It seems to be my day for being taken aback.

I see him as someone who wants to get things done, is prepared to go through all necessary stages to achieve that, while taking the vagueries of Parliament and politics into account. It's a big ask, and I am sure there will be disappointments.

I put up a a link earlier. On it Chris Bryant talks a out how Parliament has been sidelined and how the rules could be made to work. I was shocked by the short days and the shortage of time for debates. He suggested that instead of one MP (JRS at one point) you have a committee of 5,7 or 9 running the arrangements for parliamentary business.

It's not everyone's cup of tea. It's not a channel I usually watch but he also talks about how to ensure current rules are obeyed (I think there was a nod to the current Speaker with that).

Anyway, it's here if you want to watch it www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEzTwfP_UVY&t=18s

Thanks for that link. I started listening but am packing to go away….I’ll listen to it in full over the next few days. When people say things like ‘MP’s are all the same’ my first thought is always Chris Bryant?! During all the referendum debates etc I wrote the names down of all the MP’s I heard speaking in parliament that I liked and Chris was one of them. What an admirable person he is.

They will certainly change some laws as soon as/if they get in. Giving equal pay back to women for example. Although even the Conservatives may have spotted this isn't a vote winner by then.

Glorianny

Casdon

Glorianny

Casdon

*Glorianny’s personal prejudice is blinding her to the facts. Just look at the polls, Starmer is not ‘massively unpopular’ with the electorate at all. He’s more popular than any other party leader or current cabinet minister. I wish people wouldn’t make unfounded claims and pass them off as fact.

Well actually being "more popular" at this time shouldn't really be that difficult. But he certainly isn't very popular and in fact is losing popularity whilst Sunak is gaining.
Our latest Political Pulse release of 25 August shows that for Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, 27% are favourable towards him (+1 from July), and 49% are unfavourable (+2). For Keir Starmer 30% are favourable (-2 from July) and 38% are unfavourable (-1 from July).
Yes more people dislike Sunak, but honestly isn't that to be expected. The question is why don't more people like Starmer?

But why did you say that he was massively unpopular Glorianny when he patently isn’t. It’s not a hook you can wriggle off by saying he isn’t as popular as you think he should be, that’s a different argument.

If ony 30 people out of 100 like you, you are by definition massively unpopular. Some of the rest may dislike you, some may be neutral but they certainly don't like you. You are therefore massively unpopular. Which given the standards of the ministers currently in power is simply insupportable.

Surely you’re aware that Party leaders never score highly in popularity polls (even Johnson at his peak), neither do leading politicians of any party? That’s the way it works. 30% is above average. So - logically your conclusion is that all politicians are ‘massively unpopular’.
Not that it matters, it’s not a personality contest, the electability rating of the party is far more important.

Ilovecheese

It is the ideology that worries me. The editorial in the New Statesman this week points out the similarities between Liz Truss " You can't tax your way to growth" and Rachel Reeves " I don't see the way to prosperity as being through taxation. I want to grow the economy "
See if this was a bad idea when Liz Truss said it, why is it a good idea because Rachel Reeves says it.

I'm pretty sure that the New Statesman isn't saying they are going to do a Liz Truss. Not as I read it. The caution is going to get to everyone before the election, though.

It wouldn't suprise me, although this may be a case of hope over experience, that, now we have (insert whatever you think appropriate) back, they do, as TNS says, and tidy up some tax laws.

Casdon

Glorianny

Casdon

*Glorianny’s personal prejudice is blinding her to the facts. Just look at the polls, Starmer is not ‘massively unpopular’ with the electorate at all. He’s more popular than any other party leader or current cabinet minister. I wish people wouldn’t make unfounded claims and pass them off as fact.

Well actually being "more popular" at this time shouldn't really be that difficult. But he certainly isn't very popular and in fact is losing popularity whilst Sunak is gaining.
Our latest Political Pulse release of 25 August shows that for Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, 27% are favourable towards him (+1 from July), and 49% are unfavourable (+2). For Keir Starmer 30% are favourable (-2 from July) and 38% are unfavourable (-1 from July).
Yes more people dislike Sunak, but honestly isn't that to be expected. The question is why don't more people like Starmer?

But why did you say that he was massively unpopular Glorianny when he patently isn’t. It’s not a hook you can wriggle off by saying he isn’t as popular as you think he should be, that’s a different argument.

If ony 30 people out of 100 like you, you are by definition massively unpopular. Some of the rest may dislike you, some may be neutral but they certainly don't like you. You are therefore massively unpopular. Which given the standards of the ministers currently in power is simply insupportable.