What is left about Labour now?

MaizieD

Casdon

Why would a right wing former Telegraph journalist diss Starmer Grany, I can’t think of a single reason myself, can you?

To be fair, Oborne wrote a whole book about the lies of /Boris Johnson. Did that give him some left wing credentials?

Well no, not really - the lies of Boris Johnson may turn out to be a GCSE History topic in the future, political persuasion hardly comes into it, the whole gamut of politics condemns him.

Casdon

Why would a right wing former Telegraph journalist diss Starmer Grany, I can’t think of a single reason myself, can you?

To be fair, Oborne wrote a whole book about the lies of /Boris Johnson. Did that give him some left wing credentials?

Thanks again DAR and Casdon.

Think what you like your choice.

Why would a right wing former Telegraph journalist diss Starmer Grany, I can’t think of a single reason myself, can you?

No, it doesn't tell us what Keir Starmer would be like Grany. It tells us what a journalist*, who is as far to the right as you are to the left, wants people to believe Starmer is like.

So when do the far-left and the far-right agree? When they are attacking a coalition of the centre, centre-left and centre-right. Your argument, however, is not with centrists or, as I prefer to see them, the Coalition of Democrats.

Your argument is with the democracy of the Labour Party, where you, like every other member, will have had one vote. In your case, it did not go to the winning side, and you are unwilling to accept the democracy of that vote.

All this type of talk can do is destroy or split Labour. This is a split that is one I would be happy to see. In the same way, I would like to see such a split between the Neo-Liberals and the Conservatives in the current Conservative Party.

So do carry on doing the Democrats' work for them Granny. It will pay off nicely once we have PR.

*I am assuming this Peter Osbourne is the Peter Osbourne who was the former Chief Political Commentator of The Daily Telegraph. If he isn't, then it is probably worth making that clear.

MaizieD

^It’s sickening Starmer handing over power to the rich also to the media he has created a government that will never be in the interests of national life never in the interests of the poor^

There is possibly more than a year to go before the general election, Grany. Starmer is not PM. He has no 'government', just a shadow cabinet.

We have absolutely no idea what he will do if he does become PM. In the meantime he's staving off a year of assault from the right.

Posting what can only be speculation as though it were actual fact seems completely futile at this stage.

Did you watch the video by well reserched journalist Peter Oborne? Gives you more than a few indications of what KS would be like in government.

Interesting that you think I must "support" Starmer, Grany. I don't. I have made it very clear I am not a Labour Party supporter. That does not mean, nor should it, that I won’t join in analysis of the forthcoming election or the plans of the various leaders.

I talked about the "far-left" of the party, not the "hard-left" and not you specifically. However, to anyone from the centre to the right, Corbyn, and his supporters by their very agreement with his views, will be seen as at least far-left. That is purely a matter of perspective.

I get that you like to see debunked theories as facts but, when you refer to what I have said, could you try a little harder to stick to the truth?

It’s sickening Starmer handing over power to the rich also to the media he has created a government that will never be in the interests of national life never in the interests of the poor

There is possibly more than a year to go before the general election, Grany. Starmer is not PM. He has no 'government', just a shadow cabinet.

We have absolutely no idea what he will do if he does become PM. In the meantime he's staving off a year of assault from the right.

Posting what can only be speculation as though it were actual fact seems completely futile at this stage.

MayBee70

Much as I like Rory Stewart he made it quite clear how much he loathed Boris Johnson because of both his politics and his personality ( and wouldn’t have served under him anyway even if he hadn’t been thrown out of the party) and yet says Starmer should embrace people from his own party that he thinks are bad for the Labour Party. Isn’t that a bit two faced if him?

Er, no. In both cases he pointed to the positions people held. So in Johnson's case where among those he threw out of the party were: two former Chancellors of the Exchequer, seven other former Cabinet members, etc., and in Corbyn's he had been Party Leader.

You may not agree with Rory Stewart in this instance but there is no problem with his logic.

Dar I can understand you and those who support Starmer think he is pragmatic and ok.

I am not a hard left I am a lefty a socialist likes the polices of 2017/19 as did people who voted for them Corbyn almost won, if not for the right who were working two years to stop a Labour win. We found out with the Labour Leaks Report.
The polices were not radical they were sensible and needed.
Corbyn left the party with millions of funding for the next leader from the thousands who joined Labour. Corbyn did not use Murdoch he was not bought by the press. Now Starmer is the continuity party with neoliberalism same as the conservatives. He has given the rich and the media power.

Look at the video I posted by Peter Obourn.

There are left groups joining together to stop this two party system.

Starmer is a liar twitter.

Grany

With wealth tax of 1-2% on assets of 10 million

Politics is about choices - we should be on the side of those in need, not those in greed

You can be on the side of whatever extreme policies you want but if people don't/won't vote for a party offering those policies it matters not a jot whose side you are on as those policies will not be enacted. The people you say you want to help will get no help your way.

If the far-left can't show themselves able to think in a sensible and realistic way; one based on practical rather than theoretical considerations, why would anyone want to vote for them?

I have a feeling that on both extremes there are some who just like to hear the sound of there own voices. With the conferences coming up you will all be able to - good luck with that.

Here is YouTube video

m.youtube.com/watch?v=mv7sZoQkkns&t=606s

Keir Starmer the liar trending on Twitter

Peter Oborne

EXPOSED: Keir Starmer the Liar, Murdoch's Man & Candidate for MI5

Double Down News YouTube

It’s sickening Starmer handing over power to the rich also to the media he has created a government that will never be in the interests of national life never in the interests of the poor

Yes a Labour Leader, clue is in the name the Labour Party, should be standing up for the workers.

KS said in video as a leader he would stand with workers on a picket line. Changed his mind. Does KS think people are stupid, there are videos of him saying one thing then back tracking, saying the opposite is true.

Labour is Conservative now, there is nothing left of the Labour Party.

Joe Biden joined workers from United Auto on their picket line yesterday.
Fancy the President of the United States being more left wing than the leader of the Labour party!

Much as I like Rory Stewart he made it quite clear how much he loathed Boris Johnson because of both his politics and his personality ( and wouldn’t have served under him anyway even if he hadn’t been thrown out of the party) and yet says Starmer should embrace people from his own party that he thinks are bad for the Labour Party. Isn’t that a bit two faced if him?

So is this your group Grany? You appear to be one of the "we" in your statement.

We are a group of Labour Party members who have been caught up in the absurdities of Labour’s disciplinary processes who want to see them changed. Our aim is justice for all members.

Legal letter sent to Labour Party
www.crowdjustice.com/case/justice-4-labour-party-members/

Our lawyers have sent a letter on behalf of JVL to the Labour Party, outlining and evidencing the discriminatory treatment of Jewish members; it has been sent as a formal complaint and receipt by the Party has been acknowledged.

Interview, Rory Stewart slams Keir Starmer for trying to “micromanage” the Labour Party, calls the expulsion of Jeremy Corbyn “mad” and “disgusting”.

Here is a clip saying what he thought

x.com/AyoCaesar/status/1701268261210403286?s=20

Full interview with me, Ash Sarkar on
@novaramedia
published this Sunday at 6pm.

AND

@GreenJennyJones
There's still no word on what
@UKLabour
will tell its Lords to do on the Tories' #PollutersCharter on Weds. We have the chance to stop the extra pollution into our waterways, if Labour comes onside.

"What I'm hoping for on wednesday is that the Labour Party will step up and vote against these government amendments."

Katie59

Taxation is indeed a morass, year on year changes has made interpretation an “experts” only business. Do I expect changes?, no because it would cause chaos and the changeover would increase the staff cost.

Even a simple tax like VAT - 20% on sales and services, has generated thousands of pages of rules and exemptions, do we really believe it’s going to be made simple.

What is happening now is the exact opposite. HMRC does not like accountants and tax consultants like me who work for small businesses. MTD was promoted as enabling the business man/woman to do his/her own tax returns. In the process of they are gradually changing the rules of what can and cannot be claimed.

HMRC have been promoting the use of the cash basis rather than the accruals basis for businesses with a turnover less than £150k. This means that the tax payer cannot claim relief for loan interest in excess of £500. Furthermore if you are using the cash basis you cannot claim capital allowances for any capital purchases, other than a car.

Casdon

DaisyAnneReturns

Casdon

The underlying problem with HMRC is surely that there just aren’t enough staff to implement changes. Staffing was reduced by 22% by 2016 compared with 2010, and hundreds of local tax offices were closed. Of all government departments where the benefit of employing staff outweighs the cost of employing them, it’s HMRC, tax officers must be cost effective?

Is that a reduction in total staff numbers or directly employed Casdon? Or is an additional percentage now indirectly employed?

Government seems very keen to off-load employment responsibilities these days.

It was directly employed. I don’t know anything about outsourcing numbers or costs, other than remembering the Concentrix debacle about 5 years ago. They are still in the process of creating regional tax offices, and presumably are losing a lot of their most experienced staff as a result. I know in Wales they closed offices in Wrexham, Swansea and Porthmadog as well as the previous Cardiff Office and opened a big new regional centre in Cardiff - staff would have had to relocate from one end of Wales to the other.

It's just all part of the tory 'small state' ideology, and the swingeing cuts to the public sector made by George Osborne and his successors.

There doesn't seem to be anything logical or efficient about cutting staff and easy access to staff...

DaisyAnneReturns

Casdon

The underlying problem with HMRC is surely that there just aren’t enough staff to implement changes. Staffing was reduced by 22% by 2016 compared with 2010, and hundreds of local tax offices were closed. Of all government departments where the benefit of employing staff outweighs the cost of employing them, it’s HMRC, tax officers must be cost effective?

Is that a reduction in total staff numbers or directly employed Casdon? Or is an additional percentage now indirectly employed?

Government seems very keen to off-load employment responsibilities these days.

It was directly employed. I don’t know anything about outsourcing numbers or costs, other than remembering the Concentrix debacle about 5 years ago. They are still in the process of creating regional tax offices, and presumably are losing a lot of their most experienced staff as a result. I know in Wales they closed offices in Wrexham, Swansea and Porthmadog as well as the previous Cardiff Office and opened a big new regional centre in Cardiff - staff would have had to relocate from one end of Wales to the other.

I didn't really mean simplifying by picking at them. More a case of stop one and replace.

Casdon

The underlying problem with HMRC is surely that there just aren’t enough staff to implement changes. Staffing was reduced by 22% by 2016 compared with 2010, and hundreds of local tax offices were closed. Of all government departments where the benefit of employing staff outweighs the cost of employing them, it’s HMRC, tax officers must be cost effective?

Is that a reduction in total staff numbers or directly employed Casdon? Or is an additional percentage now indirectly employed?

Government seems very keen to off-load employment responsibilities these days.

Taxation is indeed a morass, year on year changes has made interpretation an “experts” only business. Do I expect changes?, no because it would cause chaos and the changeover would increase the staff cost.

Even a simple tax like VAT - 20% on sales and services, has generated thousands of pages of rules and exemptions, do we really believe it’s going to be made simple.