More than 100 schools told to close buildings over safety fears

growstuff

The Victorian primary school my children attended was on the list which Michael Gove cancelled. My son left in 2008. Even then, it had a leaky roof and a number of the classrooms were regularly flooded and the children had to be taught in the hall after rain. The outdoor toilets were converted to indoor toilets by building a flimsy roof over a passageway. It blew off during a storm. I understand from parents of children who still attend the school that little has changed.

OMG growstuff you've just taken me back to when I returned to teaching after having my children and so many schools had buckets standing around when it rained. So little seems to have changed.

The Victorian primary school my children attended was on the list which Michael Gove cancelled. My son left in 2008. Even then, it had a leaky roof and a number of the classrooms were regularly flooded and the children had to be taught in the hall after rain. The outdoor toilets were converted to indoor toilets by building a flimsy roof over a passageway. It blew off during a storm. I understand from parents of children who still attend the school that little has changed.

Callistemon21

^Well the mistaken comments about Victorian and Edwardian buildings still standing because of the quality of the build needs some correction^

I don't think we are mistaken.

The Edwardian (1907) primary school my DC attended is still standing, still being used as a primary school.

The old School here was built in 1878, no longer a school as the number of pupils outgrew its premises, has continued to be used for various activities up to the present day.

The senior school here, completed in the 1980s, is due to be replaced asap.

And how does one Victorian school, one Edwardian school and One 1980s school show anything?

No doubt some Victorian schools were well built, but money will have been spent on their upkeep. Equally some Victorian schools were not well built and they proved uneconomical to repair and have gone. But no building standing has survived without proper maintenance.
The same for the old school.
The requirements for senior schools tend to be more changeable than primary ones. But the same principles apply
.
Some building survive, some don't.
All need maintenance.
I've taught in buildings of all ages and state of repair. Newer ones did tend to have more problems, but older ones frequently had more complex and expensive issues.

The issue, as when Blair came to power. is one of neglect. It's how the Tories have always worked. Little expenditure in the short term, leave someone else to clear it up then accuse them of wasting public money.

Well the mistaken comments about Victorian and Edwardian buildings still standing because of the quality of the build needs some correction

I don't think we are mistaken.

The Edwardian (1907) primary school my DC attended is still standing, still being used as a primary school.

The old School here was built in 1878, no longer a school as the number of pupils outgrew its premises, has continued to be used for various activities up to the present day.

The senior school here, completed in the 1980s, is due to be replaced asap.

Interesting to remember that in 2010 Michael Gove scrapped the school building programme and £1bn was cut from school's budget.
Reasons for the present farce go back a long time.

Our local school no longer has a caretaker, another false economy.

Well the mistaken comments about Victorian and Edwardian buildings still standing because of the quality of the build needs some correction.
For private housing the owners will have spent substantial amounts of money on maintaining the structure. They will have installed damp courses, had new roofs, repaired chimneys. The basic structure may be strong but it would not be standing if it hadn't been cared for.
Public buildings have quite often been pulled down because the cost of repairing them was too great. Others have cost a substantial amount to maintain and some grants have made this possible.

The basic problem with these schools is that successive governments have chosen to ignore the problems. This government was warned
In 2019, the Standing Committee on Structural Safety highlighted the significant risk of failure of RAAC planks.

Three years later in 2022, the Office of Government Property sent a safety briefing notice to all property leaders, saying that "RAAC is now life-expired and liable to collapse"

So why was this ignored?
Action is only happening now because there has been a sudden collapse and the cost might now include injury or even death.

Basically it's as if someone in an older private property had simply looked at subsidence cracks, or rising damp and pretended it wasn't happening, because they didn't want to spend the money, and then wondered why their house was falling down.

PFI was opened to tender and the cheapest companies got the work. Companies like that of DH always tendered but their prices were higher, as they never cut corners. The unscrupulous builders threw the buildings up and many have vanished off the scene. You get what you pay for and it was all very short-term

Iam64

It’s good to see references to our Victorian and Edwardian buildings, still standing and functional.

I wonder if the durability of our older housing and institutional buildings created an assumption that all 'modern' building work would be as durable?

I heard a news report that said this problem has been known about since the 1990s and the material was always known to have a limited lifespan. A bit shortsighted really.
I am glad that is being sorted now. It seems crazy that schools are bombarded with Safeguarding rules but have been operating in buildings in danger of imminent collapse. There has been so much time to sort this.

I visited wider family who lived in prefabs many years ago, they were roomy and cosy, very well-designed.
Bigger than our little brick-built semi-detached too.

Callistemon21

DaisyAnneReturns

Callistemon21

This has been a disaster waiting to happen since these prefab buildings were thrown up as cheaply as possible in the 1960s to 1980s.

It's amazing that many Victorian buildings are still standing although many need extensive refurbishment.

They were told RAAC only had a 30 year lifespan Callistemon. I expect some of this to land at the feet of Labour too.

We have got to have a government that plans for the future and not just the life-span of the average political career.

growstuff I'm not surprised the HoL did its job properly. You might find this interesting. It Chris Bryant talking, after a short bit about Dorries not attending Parliament, about how the HoC's rules could be strengthened generally.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEzTwfP_UVY

The prefabs that were built as emergency housing stock after WW2 were lived in for very many years and I think some still are.

They were obviously of sturdier construction than the later constructions.

Indeed.

Oh, great minds, Callistemon

It’s good to see references to our Victorian and Edwardian buildings, still standing and functional.

Callistemon21

This has been a disaster waiting to happen since these prefab buildings were thrown up as cheaply as possible in the 1960s to 1980s.

It's amazing that many Victorian buildings are still standing although many need extensive refurbishment.

Interesting, though, that many of the post WW2 prefab houses are still standing, and sound, even though they were only meant to last for 10 years.

It's the quality of the build that is important, isn't i?

www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2021/04/prefabricated-homes/

DaisyAnneReturns

Callistemon21

This has been a disaster waiting to happen since these prefab buildings were thrown up as cheaply as possible in the 1960s to 1980s.

It's amazing that many Victorian buildings are still standing although many need extensive refurbishment.

They were told RAAC only had a 30 year lifespan Callistemon. I expect some of this to land at the feet of Labour too.

We have got to have a government that plans for the future and not just the life-span of the average political career.

growstuff I'm not surprised the HoL did its job properly. You might find this interesting. It Chris Bryant talking, after a short bit about Dorries not attending Parliament, about how the HoC's rules could be strengthened generally.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEzTwfP_UVY

The prefabs that were built as emergency housing stock after WW2 were lived in for very many years and I think some still are.

They were obviously of sturdier construction than the later constructions.

Callistemon21

This has been a disaster waiting to happen since these prefab buildings were thrown up as cheaply as possible in the 1960s to 1980s.

It's amazing that many Victorian buildings are still standing although many need extensive refurbishment.

They were told RAAC only had a 30 year lifespan Callistemon. I expect some of this to land at the feet of Labour too.

We have got to have a government that plans for the future and not just the life-span of the average political career.

growstuff I'm not surprised the HoL did its job properly. You might find this interesting. It Chris Bryant talking, after a short bit about Dorries not attending Parliament, about how the HoC's rules could be strengthened generally.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEzTwfP_UVY

Callistemon21

This has been a disaster waiting to happen since these prefab buildings were thrown up as cheaply as possible in the 1960s to 1980s.

It's amazing that many Victorian buildings are still standing although many need extensive refurbishment.

Exactly what I was about to say! We are still living in and using Victorian buildings which were built to last. My house is 100 years old now and solid as a rock. I also lived in a 1940s house which was built good and strong. Then WW2 caused a complete meltdown in house building and subsequently everything was built cheaply. But then everything has to be built again, so it's false economy. All I can say is thank goodness for the Victorians and Edwardians, otherwise we would have nothing left standing.

DaisyAnneReturns

Germanshepherdsmum

Better now than wait for an accident to happen.

What sort of excuse is that for sub-standard buildings. If it was only this that was making Britain unfit for human habitation in the last 13 years then, perhaps, there would be a scintilla of room for excuse, but it is in a long line of closing their eyes.

Didn't proper Conservatives build to last and 'conserve'. This set of wide boys haven't a clue.

They weren't substandard when they were built, it's just that they have passed their 'expiry date'.

Though why governments should have gone for building schools and hospitals only expected to last for a few decades is a bit of a mystery.

I just wonder how the rash of PFI built schools and hospitals from the '90s and early 2,000s will be holding up in 50 years time.

Lovetopaint037

Urmstongran

CoolCoco

A prep school near me has recently been fined £800,000 under H and S regulations as a ceiling collapsed on top of a class of children, fortunately no one seriously injured but more by luck than anything. Maybe that case has spurred our zombie government into some kind of too late action.

I read this was because the school in question had used the floor above inappropriately as storage for equipment that was too heavy to bear the load. Hence the fine. Different problem altogether.

That reason sounds exceptionally odd. What kind of a floor was built that cannot hold normal storage even if it amounted to a considerable weight?

It wasn't a 'floor', IIRC, it was an attic space. Used to store desks and chairs.

It must have been pretty scaring when they came raining down through the ceiling. Quite a number of broken bones as a result.

However, although not directly concerned with the AAC concrete, it does demonstrate that collapses in parts of a building can have quite serious consequences.

I didn’t offer an excuse DAR.

RAAC was used in schools from the 50s to the 90s. Which parties were in power over that period? Not only Conservatives.

I believe that the reason for no publication of a list is that the government does not know .Some schools have not been told yesterday if they were on the list. They were to be told today.
Education has always been the Cinderella of the departments.Eight Education Secretaries in five years ( and five in one year ) does not lead to stability.Look at the quality of some of them too .

Urmstongran

CoolCoco

A prep school near me has recently been fined £800,000 under H and S regulations as a ceiling collapsed on top of a class of children, fortunately no one seriously injured but more by luck than anything. Maybe that case has spurred our zombie government into some kind of too late action.

I read this was because the school in question had used the floor above inappropriately as storage for equipment that was too heavy to bear the load. Hence the fine. Different problem altogether.

That reason sounds exceptionally odd. What kind of a floor was built that cannot hold normal storage even if it amounted to a considerable weight?

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/victorian-school-buildings-please-don-t-destroy-our-heritage-413974.html

An interesting piece from exactly 17 years ago.
31st August 2006.

This has been a disaster waiting to happen since these prefab buildings were thrown up as cheaply as possible in the 1960s to 1980s.

It's amazing that many Victorian buildings are still standing although many need extensive refurbishment.