Is casual shoplifting and stealing getting out of hand.

The town where I was born now has a Bobby on the beat on foot with two other colleagues. My relations say they feel much safer, chose to shop in the town and not have their handbags grabbed and pavement cafes have opened.
It has been on the local T.V.
The chap said he had made a point of getting to know all the troublemakers and incident spots and the petty crime has gone down, as well as Ram raiders from the North East and county line drugs brought North from the Manchester and Liverpool areas.

Real police, on the beat, does have a positive effect. PCSOs are just laughed at - would be criminals realise they have no power.

I cannot remember the last time I saw a proper policeman walking about - usually they are just hareing about in cars.

If you phone the police, they are not interested.

I live in a very mixed area - plenty of mega-wealthy homes. Some of those areas have started hiring private security services.

Not ideal, but will probably increase. 😗

Yes, it has become a penalty-free crime. I saw 2 men in TK Maxx making an organised collection near the door of all the 'big name' brands, i.e. Ralph Lauren etc. obviously to quickly stuff into a large nylon holdall and leave without paying. I spoke to one of the salesgirls behind the counter to point them out, but she said 'We aren't allowed to challenge them, in case one of us is injured'.... This company used to have a Security Officer on the door, but plainly this is less economical than taking the losses and charging them to their insurance. A horrible example to law-abiding youngsters and others!

This type of gang theft in luxury dept stores on down to convenience stores is getting to be a problem everywhere, unfortunately.

The pricier the goods, the more orchestrated and practiced the robbery is - they have staked out their targets for a quick loot and getaway. It’s a phenomenon that is only growing.

They call the police but always too late to apprehend. The REAL PROBLEM is - if the criminals are caught (and a fair number are…) why aren’t they being prosecuted properly for this crime? What is our Justice dept doing by treating this lightly?

Teens and first-timers who do this on a dare or for a thrill need to be caught early!

Chains are shutting down stores because their loss to theft is so great, leaving neighborhoods bereft. So sad.
USA Gundy

This sort of thing is not new - it started in the 1980s and can basically be attributed to two factors.

1 a lot of people do not regard shop-lifting or helping themselves to anything as stealing. Their attitude is that whatever they took was just lying there waiting to be taken.

2 a lot of shop-lifters are actually stealing, knowing it is wrong, but feeling forced to try to make a living , or a better one than social security provides.

The man with a back-pack full of cheese is a classic example.

His "brothers" have been going round pubs for years offering cheese, steaks, electronic gadgets etc. at absurdly low prices and selling them to people who know perfectly well, but pretend not to, that these items were "nicked" in some local shop.

The remedy?
Teach children from the day they start school that stealing is just that, whether they take a pencil, a bar of soap, or a toilet roll without asking or receiving permission they are stealing and that stealing, like telling lies, is WRONG.

Those of us who were taught this as small children can probably honestly say that we do not steal. Those who did not learn it feel that their excuse "But I need it" is valid.

Well said * vegansrock*

I’m sure it happens but there is not much evidence of it here. The food shops don’t even bother checking your bags now, maybe they have given up? Costco and Kmart do , though and you have to show your bag on the way out.

The staff in my local One Stop all now all wearing body cams. Big groups just walk in and take whatever they want normally booze. if challenged they become aggressive and violent. My daughter won’t use the shop after witnessing it so many times ( we both have ) and not many people take kids in there, past 3 pm.
If you want any makeup/beauty dupes from the local Aldi you have to go as soon as they open, or they will all be robbed by 12 pm.
I went to a pubic meeting with the council and police (Really just a PR exercise ) the police were very reassuring and positive in the meeting, asking people to wait and give details of concerns after the meeting. I waited to give details of drug dealers who carry knives in my street. The officer was very blunt to the point of being rude and said, “look I do not have the men or the funds to fight that sort of level of crime” then he walked away without taking any details.

For years in the Uk police budgets have been cut so they’re under staffed and lack resources. Difficult decisions have to be made about priorities which has knock on impacts on society. Also, and this is me being old fashioned no doubt, I feel the general attitude to crime has gradually changed due to the changes in media - film categories are a lot less strict than 30 years ago, there is easier access to see criminal activity online. People can become desensitised and criminal activity is normalised, so shop lifting isn’t such a big deal.

We owned a high end deli from 96-01, and we had an amazing amount of Lindt chocolate family size bars disappearing. Eventually we realised it was a lovely old lady. She would come in and buy 1 slice of ham and lift 2 bars of chocolate while waiting. We rearranged the shop, she changed to buying a bag of crisps and lift 2 bars of chocolate...We then took the chocolate off the shelf before her next visit. She had the nerve to complain!

I pointed out that too much was stolen, so we were ceasing to stock it, she was very upset and I explained that if only 2 bars in every 12 were taken we would make no profit on the entire box. She 'hoped we would change our minds', we put it back out...she went back to stealing it. We ended up keeping it behind the counter and she ceased to be a customer- she was a retired magistrate.

Some years ago I was in a small pharmacy with DH. He is a retired police officer. He spotted a youth filling his pockets with perfumes so he grabbed him. The youth fought back, kicking stuff off the shelves. The shop owner shouted "just let him go", so DH did. The youth shouted abuse at us then ran away. DH could have held him but it seemed pointless.

The police know that in most of these cases even if they catch the shoplifter and spend hours of police time processing the theft the justice system will just let them go. The prisons are overflowing so they won't be sent there. Fining is no use as they often don't have any money so what is the answer?
It may come to locked cabinets for expensive items. More security officers too.

Saw 2 ladies bagging up and stealing gravel from a road construction site. Luckily for them the nearly new 4x4 they were loading it into would have had no trouble carrying such a heavy load. Gravel at that time was £2.50 a bag - they probably got a good £15 worth

My son used to work at Greggs and they regularly had people stealing baguettes from the shop. Staff were told by management not to tackle shoplifters. My son happened to be outside the store on his day off and witnessed a theft of food. He took great delight in grabbing one of the thieves and retrieving the stolen goods.
Another time a theft took place and one of the staff followed the culprit into the Boots store next door, said " those belong to us" and took the stolen sandwiches from their bag.

Dandylion
I would imagine TK Max got rid of the security guard ( on minimum wage) because they knew he couldn’t stop the thieves. Short of carrying a gun or tazer he’s powerless.

I live in a deprived area of the North East where shoplifting is rife and has been for a long time.
It is quite common to be offered stolen items to buy very cheaply at bus stops.Cars pull up outside houses where local fences live and unload their goods regularly.

The policy of retail outlets is to advise their staff not to intervene in case of assault.
13 years of austerity and cuts leaves our police stretched beyond any capabilities
Alongside this - cuts to drug/alcohol/mental health/children’s services mean we have more people living on the edge of their capabilities
Add the cost of living crisis and we have a perfect storm
Gloryannie is right about shop lifting to order, always there but now a growing industry
Our prisons are over filled. We incarcerate more people than other Northern European countries. We have nonsensical government ministers talking about being tough on crime. They really need to take advice from Scandi/other Northern European countries. Our government couldn’t do worse if it tried. Whoops - yes it probably could

I was just having a look at some of the figures for shoplifting in Sweden etc, but got completely distracted by a report on a swedish high court judge who stole meatballs and a Christmas ham.

grandtanteJE65

This sort of thing is not new - it started in the 1980s and can basically be attributed to two factors.

1 a lot of people do not regard shop-lifting or helping themselves to anything as stealing. Their attitude is that whatever they took was just lying there waiting to be taken.

2 a lot of shop-lifters are actually stealing, knowing it is wrong, but feeling forced to try to make a living , or a better one than social security provides.

The man with a back-pack full of cheese is a classic example.

His "brothers" have been going round pubs for years offering cheese, steaks, electronic gadgets etc. at absurdly low prices and selling them to people who know perfectly well, but pretend not to, that these items were "nicked" in some local shop.

The remedy?
Teach children from the day they start school that stealing is just that, whether they take a pencil, a bar of soap, or a toilet roll without asking or receiving permission they are stealing and that stealing, like telling lies, is WRONG.

Those of us who were taught this as small children can probably honestly say that we do not steal. Those who did not learn it feel that their excuse "But I need it" is valid.

The acquisition of goods by illegal means started way before the 1980s. Working class culture has always had a supply of such things-"fell off the back of a lorry" was the usual term. Danny Baker wrote about his dad and the pilfering that went on on the docks. There's a brilliant episode in his sitcom where London dockers trade shoes with Liverpool dockers, because left and right shoes were shipped to different places, to stop any thieving.
I think it has become much more acceptable
I do wonder though how you teach a child, who is wearing a pair of shoes his mother openly says were 'got from the shoplifters', that stealing is wrong.

As I said on the police thread, we have a business which is regularly targeted by thieves, and I can’t remember the last time we bothered to ring the police.
We have forcibly ejected people ourselves, we have surrounded known thieves, making it impossible for them to steal anything.
We have taken pursuit on foot, and in vehicles, and several skirmishes have taken place.
We have a very expensive security system, but no one is bothered by it, because the police aren’t interested.
I know all about underfunding, and theft is no longer considered a crime.
But we all work damned hard, and we aren’t about to sit back and let it happen.
But one day, someone on our retail park, will challenge someone with a knife, or maybe even a gun, this DIY policing is far from ideal.

Theft is a crime, so is vandalism, tax / benefit fraud, driving under the influence, disturbing the peace,etc.
Cameron’s unnecessary austerity programme led to experienced police/prison officers, social workers etc being made redundant.
If we want a safer, more caring society, we need to invest in good public services.
We need to re-instate the Sure Start programme. The evidence is solid, invest in Early Years and have fewer teenage pregnancies, less substance misuse, hard to reach families are more likely to engage with Sure Start and with the midwives, health visitors, drug team, social workers based there. And the community police call in for a cuppa
Alongside this, crack down on so called low level crime. It has knock on improvements
It costs money - so does the lack of invest,ent - look at the soaring mh problems in children and adults

Who pays for these thieves? We do. Higher prices rising all the time. That’s what makes me mad. I don’t feel sorry for the bs. at all.

We have just pursued another thief spotted on camera, we got the item back, but I constantly worry that one day someone will pull a knife when challenged.

Poverty is no excuse for literally raiding shops, armed with weapons.

I'm sure many of us have been poor, in the past, but didn't feel the need to carry on like this.

These events aren't a desperate parent stealing milk and bread to feed the little ones - this is organised crime.

And it costs all of us. 🙁

The thing is they very rarely steal cheaper item. It is always baby milk, steaks, coffee, dog food, ink cartridges, mens razors, small stuff like usb sticks. They don't really steal tins of peas/tomatoes etc.

They know exactly what their doing.