Voter ID led to racial and disability discrimination

ronib

Am on a tight schedule but someone might want to check out Mogg’s varying positions on voter id. Quite different when leader of the House but hey ….

That was when he was in a government post and thought that voter ID would give the tories an electoral advantage. He discovered that it didn't. I don't see what there is to 'check out'. It's a logical sequence.

Am on a tight schedule but someone might want to check out Mogg’s varying positions on voter id. Quite different when leader of the House but hey ….

Maisie, you ask a lot of questions, people answer, you rubbish their answers, why?
Can you please answer a few questions as it's relevant to your post. If you have nothing to hide, what's wrong with ID. No one is so special they have no responsibility to their neighbour or country. Why would anyone living here not want to be part of the country they tried so hard to enter, think the rules have to be changed for them? We don't have X Ray eyes, can't see through a mask or a burkha, it could be anyone, just because they say who they are is not enough, why do you think it is? Is it at all possible you have answers. I would love yo know what job you have that gives you these insights.

Rules don't 'evolve', GG13, they're not organic. They are deliberately made to serve a purpose. Not always with pure motives, as Rees Mogg disclosed...

Rules made on the basis of no evidence of need for them must always be suspect. Particularly when they remove a freedom or a right.

Countries, lives, politics and rules evolve, voter ID is just one of these…

MaizieD

I'm afraid that personal views of what one would do contribute nothing to the debate. Every individual has the right to choose to vote in whatever way they would like to. It's not up for criticism.

So if they choose not to get free voter ID, that's their choice and thefore do not want to vote.
Personal responsibility, not the States.

Thus This

Sparklefizz

MaizieD Now please explain why it ......
Actually I don't have to explain anything. I asked a question and you tried to answer it.

This was in answer to facts given by Maisie in answer to a fallacious question based on bias.

Yet again, no-one will be surprised at the irrelevance of this answer. When will the "Granny" generation educate themselves and not simply use cultural bias when debating a political point.

"Chat" has for years been the safe haven for the "I'm entitled to my opinion" brigade and N & P the place for debate. Thus seems to have changed. Where now is the safe space for factual, logical debate?

Maisue, just why are you so against ID. Only if someone has something to hide should they be worried. It's about Natiinal Security. Anyone coming to our country to live should swear allegiance to it. If a woman wears a Burkha and won't remove it, don't expect to vote or travel. Dread to think how they cope in 30 degrees.

As regards collecting a parcel at the post office, they accept a bank card (not photo ID) but wouldn't accept my work ID card which had a photo on it! Where's the sense in that?

I was put off postal voting when my DD missed out on voting in the first general election after reaching the age of 18, as the papers failed to arrive in time! She had no choice as she was a student at the time, but was understandably incensed. As a result she registered to vote in her university city after that.

I have only once applied for a postal vote when I was expecting to be out of the country on a school trip. In the end I was ill with shingles but I got my vote!

I was disenfranchised at the first election with voter ID as I caught Covid so couldn't leave the house! I was too late to get a postal vote!

It seems there are plenty things that can go wrong and no system is perfect.

Next year we will have to navigate the system for proxy votes as DD has moved to Dubai!

Yes, Mcbab and I think we all also know the reasons behind it .. but it is only just "decades" as I think it came in in 2002.
I know the were lots of "voters" who were "lost" under the system of individual registration!

MaizieD

Witzend

vegansrock

To those saying there is very little evidence of voter fraud- how do you know? Statistics are no proof here- Prosecutions will be low because it was so easy to do people could easily get away with it and never be discovered. I’m all for universal ID like many other democratic countries (countries which are actually more democratic than our archaic system). .

I was just thinking the same. It’s often said that there’s very little evidence of benefit fraud - but that’s surely because, by definition, the only cases known of are those where it’s already been proved.

I dare say the same could be said for election fraud.

I’m another in favour of ID cards - IMO it’s crazy that we don’t already have them. The world has changed a lot since the days when (except for wartime) they were considered unnecessary and very un-British.

I am astounded and appalled.

So it's absolutely fine to take away people's rights and freedoms on the basis of absolutely no evidence whatsoever? Because it 'might' be happening under the radar?

I presume you are aware that voter ID has been a requirement in Northern Ireland ( part of the U.K.) for decades. It has worked very well. Also the majority of European countries require voters to have ID. As has been said before if you wish to collect a parcel from the post office you must show

Voter ID was introduced in NI because there was a great deal of voter fraud during 'the troubles'. Specific and evidenced reason for its introduction.

Voter ID has been a requirement in one part of the UK, Northern Ireland for many years. I found it strange when I moved back here but people seem to have got used to it and doesn't seem to be a problem. I wasn't living here when it was introduced so don't know if caused problems at first.
I don't have an opinion about the rights or wrongs of it but just think it's interesting that it's been so accepted here and so little awareness in rest of UK that it has been in place here for a long time.

My guess is that there's greater potential for voter fraud with postal voting than voting in person (with or without voter ID).

That's what I think, too, growstuff.

They're not exactly the guarantee of an individual's vote being secret and free of third party influence/coercion that a polling booth is.

Zoe65

And as a report by the lefty guardian newspaper what do you expect!
Loads of voter fraud going on before this especially with the ethnic minorities and their postal votes even if not all was found out .

Since when has anyone who doesn’t agree with the conservatives right wing stance been labelled left wing. Just because you question shouldn’t mean you are biased or left wing. I find derogatory comments like this very worrying

I think there could be a problem with postal votes in what might be a patriarchal family.
Sadly I think you’re right. Either the freedom to vote how you want (fraud)
or the refusal to allow a vote at all, in which case, chances are the women would not be allowed to apply for voter ID.

I agree with you Callistemon. My guess is that there's greater potential for voter fraud with postal voting than voting in person (with or without voter ID).

I've read (anecdotally) that's it's easy to pick up voting cards sent to people in HMOs, where there tends to be a high turnover of tenants and people don't always change their addresses. A dishonest landlord (or anybody else) could use the cards from tenants who have moved on. There is, as you say, the alleged problem with patriarchal families, who return a batch of cards.

It would be possible to cast quite a few postal votes fraudulently and nobody would be the wiser. People voting fraudulently in person would have to go to different polling stations, unless they risk polling clerks not noticing that the same person is voting with different IDs.

When I travelled through a Muslim country, at the airport I was taken into a side area, protected by a curtain, to be patted down/searched by a woman. I wasn’t wearing a burka.

I obviously look suspicious.

Mollygo

*Muslim woman wearing a burka who refused to remove it if there were men present?*
If that’s the case -apply for a postal vote. Religion is a protected characteristic. Clothing isn’t-though men in some places want to make it so.

Could you just remind me how these women in burkas get through passport control? Or do they never go out of the country?
We have several local women who are totally covered. I have no idea how they deal with proving identity.

I think there could be a problem with postal votes in what might be a patriarchal family.

Muslim woman wearing a burka who refused to remove it if there were men present?
If that’s the case -apply for a postal vote. Religion is a protected characteristic. Clothing isn’t-though men in some places want to make it so.

Could you just remind me how these women in burkas get through passport control? Or do they never go out of the country?
We have several local women who are totally covered. I have no idea how they deal with proving identity.

Oreo

ronib

MaizieD surely a side room is available for a female polling officer to check the id of a burka wearing female? Seems to me that you are not applying simple common sense to these examples.

I think common sense has long departed.

It's a long and tiring day being a poll clerk and you are not allowed to leave the building at all for the duration.

You can, of course, have a break on the premises.

Ensuring the ID of the voter is necessary now and anyone not willing to prove their ID won't be allowed to vote.

Everyone should know that by now.

ronib

MaizieD surely a side room is available for a female polling officer to check the id of a burka wearing female? Seems to me that you are not applying simple common sense to these examples.

I think common sense has long departed.

MaizieD

So what would all you hardliners do with a Muslim woman wearing a burka who refused to remove it if there were men present?

And, disability is a protected characteristic. Which means that one has to make accommodation for it

Disability discrimination is when you are treated less well or put at a disadvantage for a reason that relates to your disability in one of the situations covered by the Equality Act.

The treatment could be a one-off action, the application of a rule or policy or the existence of physical or communication barriers which make accessing something difficult or impossible.

The discrimination does not have to be intentional to be unlawful.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/disability-discrimination.

I will point out once again, that making laws on the basis of belief rather than hard evidence is extremely unwise...

‘All you hardliners’
😂
Dear oh dear.