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Voter ID led to racial and disability discrimination

(167 Posts)
MaizieD Mon 11-Sept-23 11:18:27

A report by a parliamentary All Party Group, or APPG, (this is not an official parliamentary group in the same way that a Select Committee is; it's a special interest cross party group) has found that there was both racial and disability discrimination implicated in voters being refused a ballot paper under the new voter ID legislation.

The Electoral Commission has already found that at least 14,000 voters were turned away at polling stations (these being the ones refused a ballot paper by the poll clerks; it doesn't account for those turned away before they entered to polling station)

While a report co-author concludes that the rules need revising I am (as you might expect) more inclined to think that they should be done away with altogether. Disenfranchisement is a very serious harm to the individual and to democracy.

The report, which has been seen by the Guardian, says: “The current voter-ID system is, as it stands, a ‘poisoned cure’ in that it disenfranchises more electors than it protects.”

The authors found that “polling clerks are more likely to fail to compare a photo ID to the person presenting that document if the person is of a different ethnicity”.

They also highlighted the case of Andrea Barratt, who is immunocompromised and was blocked from entering a polling booth after refusing to remove her mask for an identification check.

The report says: “Their decision in that instance was … clearly discriminatory (and potentially unlawful) because they denied Andrea Barratt the right to cast a ballot purely on the basis of circumstances which arose as a direct result of a disability.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/11/voter-id-in-england-led-to-racial-and-disability-discrimination-report-finds

DiamondLily Mon 11-Sept-23 17:16:40

GrannyGravy13

DiamondLily

biglouis

I dont drive so Ive just paid best part of £100 for a new passport purely for ID purposes as I dont intend to travel abroad again.

I haven't been able to travel abroad for years (health), but that doesn't stop me renewing my passport.

I don't drive, so it's ideal for everything. 🙂

Councils are required to issue free of charge voter identity cards.

Yes, they are. Which is why I don't understand the fuss.

But, to sort out our bank, when my DH died, I needed ID - a passport or a full driving license.

We need ID for all sorts of reasons

GrannyGravy13 Mon 11-Sept-23 17:13:41

DiamondLily

biglouis

I dont drive so Ive just paid best part of £100 for a new passport purely for ID purposes as I dont intend to travel abroad again.

I haven't been able to travel abroad for years (health), but that doesn't stop me renewing my passport.

I don't drive, so it's ideal for everything. 🙂

Councils are required to issue free of charge voter identity cards.

DiamondLily Mon 11-Sept-23 17:11:57

biglouis

I dont drive so Ive just paid best part of £100 for a new passport purely for ID purposes as I dont intend to travel abroad again.

I haven't been able to travel abroad for years (health), but that doesn't stop me renewing my passport.

I don't drive, so it's ideal for everything. 🙂

Baggs Mon 11-Sept-23 16:48:01

UK joined the gang re Covid too. Yay for Sweden, I say.

MerylStreep Mon 11-Sept-23 16:31:05

All governments the world over realised how far they could push people when covid came along.
Me cynical, nooo!!!!!

Callistemon21 Mon 11-Sept-23 16:09:46

biglouis

I dont drive so Ive just paid best part of £100 for a new passport purely for ID purposes as I dont intend to travel abroad again.

ID cards are the answer!

Baggs Mon 11-Sept-23 16:05:01

I think UK is just joining the gang:

www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/01/in-europe-voter-id-is-the-norm/

When the above was published (summer 2021), and presuming it is correct, UK was an outlier with regard to voter ID requirements in Europe. It seems to be suggesting that voter ID has been proven to solve voting irregularities elsewhere so why not use it here before any major problems arise.

Nicenanny3 Mon 11-Sept-23 15:44:13

I can't see a problem with voter ID infact I agree with it.

Margiknot Mon 11-Sept-23 15:36:58

Postal voting is the answer for anyone immunosuppressed, but I suppose if someone became immunosuppressed after the last application date for postal voting, ( leaving only in person voting available) the other answer might have been ( if sufficient staff) to check the ladies identity outside in the open air away from a doorway, where it is less unsafe to remove a protective mask- perhaps with a small supply of suitable masks available for staff? I’m sure there must be ways around that particular issue.

MaizieD Mon 11-Sept-23 15:13:51

and why it is necessary.

Why is it necessary, Elegran?

(Please don't tell me it's because it's the law. I know that.)

No apology from me for asking a question, either... I think they're still allowed on this forum.

MaizieD Mon 11-Sept-23 15:10:48

I am constantly amazed at how much unquestioning acceptance there is of unnecessary 'rules' and how willing people are to tell other people what they should or shouldn't do.

Not to mention complete unconcern at erosion of rights 🙄

Elegran Mon 11-Sept-23 15:06:32

Get a postal vote! It is free, it lasts until you choose that you don't need it, and it doesn't even need a stamp! No need to go out in the wet at the last minute to exercise the privilege of participating in choosing your representatives, after waiting indoors all day in the hope that the rain will pause long enough for you to get there and back without being soaked.

Elegran Mon 11-Sept-23 14:59:51

MaizieD

I'm afraid that personal views of what one would do contribute nothing to the debate. Every individual has the right to choose to vote in whatever way they would like to. It's not up for criticism.

And those operating the voting stations have a right to prevent people voting if they are not the individuals named in the list of electors - or if the operators are not able to compare their actual faces with the "official" faces of the electors.

This is not so that they can turn away people of the "wrong" race, sex, ability, height, weight, choice of clothing, or frequency of bathing. It is to stop anybody using someone else's vote. There would be an outcry if it were discovered that a squadron of agitators/infiltrators from a terrorist organisation, a political party with dubious ethics, or a foreign country aiming to destabilise our institutions, were to get hold of the identities of people in mental hospitals, clinics, even mortuaries, and use them to influence an election.

As someone has said, , those who forgot to bring their id, or who didn't resemble them enough to be recognised, will have learnt by the next important election that they need id to vote - and why it is necessary.

vickymeldrew Mon 11-Sept-23 14:33:01

What a fuss about nothing. Those are the rules. There are choices. Get on with it !

GrannyGravy13 Mon 11-Sept-23 14:31:49

Exactly maddyone

maddyone Mon 11-Sept-23 14:30:37

I said on the last thread about this that I have no objection to voter ID. It’s the way of the world now to provide ID for almost everything. Voting is no different. In a few years time all this fuss will be forgotten and it will just be accepted that you provide ID to vote, just as you do to drive, go abroad, or whatever.

rosie1959 Mon 11-Sept-23 14:22:49

Once upon a time I could travel freely to Jersey without any form of ID on the ferry now I can’t you need ID things change.
Well advertised that you now need ID to vote so if you are keen to vote you will make sure you have it or use a postal vote so why the fuss

GrannySomerset Mon 11-Sept-23 14:22:19

We have to provide ID for so many things. I need to rewrite my will and am using a new to me solicitor; she wants passport or driving licence plus utility bill evidence that I am who I say I am. Who’d have thought it?

HousePlantQueen Mon 11-Sept-23 14:16:23

Sparklefizz

How would you prevent voter fraud which we know has happened in the past?

Electoral Commission statistics: in 2022 there were 193 allegations. One led to a warning, one has led to court proceedings. Hardly a crime wave

maddyone Mon 11-Sept-23 14:11:53

Sparklefizz

MaizieD Now please explain why it ......
Actually I don't have to explain anything. I asked a question and you tried to answer it.

Good for you with this answer Sparklefizz.
I’m constantly amazed by the audacity of posters who demand you explain or provide links.
It’s not necessary, it’s a social media platform and it’s simply a discussion.
We’re not in a court of law.

Siope Mon 11-Sept-23 14:07:47

Worth also noting that the report says that, without changes to the ID permitted and improved training for those checking, the system could help swing the results of up to 16 constituencies.

It is entirely inappropriate that a badly designed system should be allowed to affect either who governs, or how they do so, which are realistic outcomes as things stand.

ronib Mon 11-Sept-23 13:50:22

MaizieD no every person does not have the right to vote according to their personal method - we are a rule based democracy and if an individual chooses not to remove a face mask then a postal vote is a perfectly reasonable alternative.

Doodledog Mon 11-Sept-23 13:50:06

It is not easy for many people born after 1982 to get a passport, which they need if they don’t have a driving license. First they need to know someone in a professional role to countersign their application, and not everyone does. It’s probably the case that those who don’t will also struggle to find the £100 plus the charge for a photo, too. Then they need to have the passport numbers of their parents plus their birth certificates (originals) to prove that they are British citizens. If their parents are dead, or don’t have passports (again probably more likely in poorer families) that would be an almighty faff - enough to put a lot of people off voting. As young people are statistically more likely to vote Labour it’s clear who stands to gain from this requirement.

nanna8 Mon 11-Sept-23 13:46:50

Electoral commission investigating voter fraud ? Something dodgy there for a start. Should be an independent body. Not saying there is fraud but really they should be above suspicion in their ‘investigations’

Bodach Mon 11-Sept-23 13:41:53

Having been presiding officer on two different elections when voter ID was required (the first one was a pilot), I encountered nothing but strong support for the ID rules from voters - even from a couple of individuals who had forgotten to bring any, and whom I had to turn away until they came back with their ‘leave to remain’ photo ID documents.